2rike Yamaha R1 RT Project

[mtntech]

Mar 28, 2017 20:19:36 GMT -5 Liteway said:

Of course every chassis reacts differently to modifications but in my case, after fitting an anti-roll bar, I found I was able to back off the preloads a bit as the springs were no longer the sole source of roll opposition. Compliance may have improved a bit. Certainly it rode no worse.
The handling was totally transformed and it became much more fun and less scary to push hard. I had no idea it had been such a little pig before.

One distinct disadvantage a trike has against a four wheeled vehicle is it has only one axle opposing roll, so at a equal spring rate, all other things being equal, it has only half the roll resistance of a four wheel vehicle.
Roll control on that one axle becomes critical.

Reminds me of Herb Adam's philsophy.

[DaveJ98092]

Of all the suspension engineers I have followed, it was Herb Adams VSE (Very Special Equipment) and his mods during the 60's and 70's. He did mostly GM cars but if it had leaf springs in the rear, his mods worked. It was his design and reasoning that the Trans Am's cornered so well, it was light springs and BIG anti-roll bars. I have one of his books here somewhere.

A guy in my home town had a Herb Adams "Jackrabbit" kit car based off of all things, a VW Rabbit. He had replaced the VW 1.6 with a Chrysler 2.2 turbo. I worked a lot of hours with him getting everything tuned up. Weighted about 1700 pounds and had 310 horsepower. The engine was mounted in the rear but the axle is behind the crankshaft so it becomes "Mid Ship" mounted.

[2rike]

If I can find some time I will have a go mocking up  an anti roll bar and do some testing

[kev]

I would defo find some time to try one craven, I thought my tR1ke handled great without but with one it feels so much sharper to react to the steering plus keeps that rear wheel flatter in the bends.
Mine is adjustable so can be quickly adjusted for the street, but I don't bother as I like the overall feel.

[DaveJ98092]

If you find an Anti-Roll bar that is kind of close to what you need, you can heat the bar with a MAPP gas or oxy-acetylene torch and bend it to shape. It will self harden back to a spring when cooled off. This has been done 1000's of times. But you do not want to heat it while under tension and let it cool while still under tension as it will continue to "Relax" for a while. Just heat it, bend it and let it relax to cool off. Just try to keep the heat only in the bend area and do it fast with a VERY hot torch. Propane is too slow so I recommend the Mapp gas or oxy-acetylene torch.

[2rike]

Mar 30, 2017 4:28:33 GMT -5 kev said:

I would defo find some time to try one craven, I thought my tR1ke handled great without but with one it feels so much sharper to react to the steering plus keeps that rear wheel flatter in the bends.
Mine is adjustable so can be quickly adjusted for the street, but I don't bother as I like the overall feel.

Hello Kev It was good to see you over at Blyton the other Friday at the trackday and yes an anti roll bar is on the cards especially after you had commented on the day that the rear tyre was lifting with the body roll. and later when I got home and looked at some  pictures that had been taken of the 2rike exiting a corner I could see the extent of the roll that looked a lot worse than it actually felt. So I need to look at keeping the rear tyre flat to the ground on the corners.

[2rike]

  
If you are visiting the National Kit Car Show (UK) atStoneleigh  on the bank holiday weekend 30 April-1 May please drop by stand 19, Hall 1  where I will be displaying the orignal 2rike and the first kit. It would be great to meet and say hello to people who use the forum.

[2rike]

    
here is the solution to a problem I had of getting both of the  my 2rikes down to the kit car show!  It was solved with some box section and a design and build weekend. 

[Liteway]

Cool. Trikes generally have big dimensions for their size. (Yogism?) Makes them hard to trailer.

[2rike]

 
A great day out in the 2rike today, This is at the top of Dent dale in the Yorkshire Dales

[Liteway]

Beautiful countryside to meander through in an open trike. How far from your home?

Here on the plains, to get to the hills where grid section line roads won't work, is a considerable drive.

I'll just have to convince myself that those clear dry skies in the photo were taken on a fluke day or envy will consume me.

[2rike]

Jun 18, 2017 17:14:29 GMT -5 Liteway said:

Beautiful countryside to meander through in an open trike. How far from your home?

Here on the plains, to get to the hills where grid section line roads won't work, is a considerable drive.

 I'll just have to convince myself that those clear dry skies in the photo were taken on a fluke day or envy will consume me.

I am very lucky I live in west Yorkshire In a village high in the Pennines (hill range ) which is a moor land predominately sheep farming  and we are only 10 miles from the edge of the Yorkshire dales national park that pictrure is 48 miles in to the park  I can recommend it for a holiday if you ever get a chance to come over. You are right its the rain that makes it lush and green so we do have to choose our days but in the summer that is more often than not. I have used the 2rike all year round because even in the winter we can get cold dry sunny days! 

[2rike]

I Have been interviewed for a new YouTube channel car program made by Enwin motors its  called the "Alternative Car Show" which is a monthly car show I think the 2rike will be appearing in the episode 3 In August and it will show the 2rike in some detail. Its a good program and in the first edition it visits this years kit car show and is well worth a watch and supporting

Episode/1 www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cir0sp8DKAo   

Footage of the 2rike out on a drive that will be used in the 2rike feature in August Episode/3   www.youtube.com/watch?v=faQ3xgHtj8s  

[kev]

Ill be sure not to miss that craven, thanks.

[2rike]

 
I am trying a new  Gear ratio whith a +3 teeth on the rear sprocket and -1 on the out put sprocket  as recommended by a friend Kevin who has a Tr1ke which also runs the Yamaha R1. I am also using a 520 chain as apposed to the standard 530. 
I will feed back on the results shortly when I have tested it for a few hundred miles But straight away it is easier to set off without having to slip the clutch on hill starts, the R1  has high gearing as a Bike i am told,   I have lost the 100mph in second gear party trick, it spins up easier in first and third is bit down and driving gear   it also now does 70 mph @6000 RPM   before it did 70mph @ 5000RPM  so MPG may be down a bit. Time will tell, but it does  feel like an improvement so far.

[DaveJ98092]

Always a trade off one way or the other. Need 1 more gear is all.

Going thinner chain 530/520? The 530 is the strongest but weighs a bit more. Then the 525 is in the middle. A 520 is light in weight but in strength too. You would not feel the difference between a 520 and a 530 I'd bet. I'd only step down for drag racing. In my opinion, the 530 will last longer but may knock down your RPM by about 20 RPM, not worth having to replace the 520 chain every 8-10,000 miles.
What you read in Racer forums on chains will be totally different that an Adventure Forum.

Basically, dropping 1 tooth on the front is about like adding 2.5 teeth in the rear so you went up about 6 rear teeth. That is a big drop in ratio.

My Burgman 650 scooter pulls 4200 RPM at 70 MPH.

[kev]

i did wonder if you would give it a go craven, glad you're happy with it so far.
I doubt you'll get less fuel milage with the lower gearing, mine will easily return high 40's and dip into the low 50's if I keep below the 70 limit.
I find the lower gearing needs less throttle and is definitely more responsive.
My thinking is why over gear it just for the odd time I do a long cross country run, so far in the 5 years since I built the tR1ke I can honestly say Ive only maxed the rpm out in top gear a couple of times, and don't actually believe the aero would let it go much faster.

[DaveJ98092]

Edited:

Kev, your gas mileage is Imperial MPG I take it? If so, thats 4.55 Liters per Gallon where we get 3.8 Liters. So here in USA if I have a 15 gallon fuel tank, I can pump about 57 Liters, your 15 gallons is over 68 Liters.

I do agree that Craven's gas mileage will not go down by much if any due to the fact the engine will be working less at the same MPH, higher RPM but less drag to push.

I only think going to a much thinner chain will only cause more wear on the sprockets and quicker chain stretch. Unless you are roadracing or drag racing, there are not many benefits to go from a 530 to a 520 chain. The extra weight of a 530 DOES matter at 14,000 RPM for a few hours of RACEDAY but after the race most teams put the 520 chain and sprockets in the Rubbish Bin. Just my opinion. I don't think the winner of the 2016 Isle Of Man TT used a 520 chain for those 98 laps. Bet it was a 535 or larger.

[kev]

That correct dave, 4.55L-gal
I shall monitor my chain (DID ZVM-X) but its still got plenty of life in it.
Rear tire life on the other hand is real bad, though I mostly use trackday tires to stop that spinning up that craven has with the lesser toyo t1R. 

[DaveJ98092]

Yeah, a Front wheel drive or three wheel drive would sort the tyres going up in smoke. Mtntech is working a system for front wheel drive and will be posting his build soon. Brilliantly simple system.

On the BurgmanUSA scooter site, we get Burgman 400 members on all the time stating "I average 75 MPG and got the best of 82 MPG...." and come to find they are from England. The USA and Canada members get averages of 60 MPG and BESTS of 72 MPG. When you have the same size tanks in Liters and our miles are the same, SIZE DOES MATTER!