Bandit project trike

[joeld0803]

Ok to answer a few of the responses.
The back sprocket is NEW.
The front isn't and it's a stock 15 tooth. I installed a new 17 tooth on the front when I installed the new 48 tooth rear and lengthened the stock chain by 2 links to get the length I needed but the ratio was too low on the take off so I decided to reinstall the original front 15 tooth and try it again which helped on the take off although didn't completely cure it. If it is indeed slipping on the front then going with a 17 tooth would give it 2 more teeth for the bite which may help cure it but to go up 2 on the front would require me to go up an additional 4-6 teeth more in the back to offset the ratio back to where I need to be. I might be better off ordering a new 16 tooth for the front and then try to find a 54 tooth rear to get it closer to where I feel it needs to be and then I could just order a new longer chain and everything would be new.

As it is right now the stock chain from the motorcycle fits the project exactly as it was on the bike so the distance between the front sprocket and rear sprocket isn't any further than where it was on the bike.

Right now there is a small amount of down angle on the swingarm (very slight) and when the swing arm is compressed up the chain actually goes tighter when staight out. As it goes up further and off center it gets looser and as it goes down as it does on take off it gets looser which is why I installed a tensioner.

Having slack in a 4 wheeler chain drive isn't as big of an issue because the weight just isn't there on one where as this thing is heavier and puts more stress on the chain to get it rolling not to mention I am running softer street slicks which bite into the pavement and don't slip. Not to mention the tires on a 4 wheeer are much smaller so not as much radius to rotate.

The tensioner is doing exactlly what I need it to do where it is which is keeping the slack out of the chain when the swing arm moves up and down off center which keeps the chain tight against the sprockets.

I believe it is the front sprocket slipping the more I think about it and will replace it with a 16 tooth as well as get a 52-54 tooth for the back and a longer chain and start there first before readjusting the geometry on my tensioner.

I am not sure what a GO PRO is???


I am hoping to get the thing trailered to my house before the end of the month and then I can drive it around these back roads and run it through the gears a little bit.

[mtntech]

gopro.com/hd-hero3-cameras

[DaveJ98092]

GoPro is a water proof, shock resistante, High Def camera. gopro.com/

I have a buddy that had mounted one to his cage in a 04 WRX. Spun out, did 3 360's, hit a guardrail at 80+ MPH Backwards, rolled 5 times down an embankment and landed on its roof.. Lost the camera in the recovery of the WRX. They found it three weeks later in a creek.

[Liteway]

Joel, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't comparing front sprocket to rear sprocket distance on the bandit with the distance on the trike. I was comparing distance between the front sprocket and the pivot point where the swingarm attaches to the frame. This determines the chain tension as the rear wheel moves up and down. The closer you can get the front pivot point to the front sprocket, the more constant will be the chain tension as the wheel moves up and down.

The "unloading" of the rear shocks as the rear tire bites is caused by the same pivot point being to high.
All your problems are being caused by inproper swing arm geometry. This not conjecture, I have been through these problems and solved them.

[joeld0803]

Yea I misunderstood Tripple.

The swing arm pivot point may be a little further back now than on the bike but it really couldn't be helped and because the chain goes over and under the 2 inch tubing that the swing arm mounts to there is really no way I could lower the pivot without completely cutting out the tube member and lowering it. The chain would rub the top end of it. I already cut out an area in the bottom and notch welded it up so the bottom of the chain would not grind into the tube on the bottom and the tensioner actually pulls up on the chain and I still have room under it.

There are a couple of other things I am considering. Mount the rear lower shock attatchment point further back which will do 2 things: it will lower the back of the car frame some and allow the swing arm to be either straight and level with the frame or slightly up in the back so take off would only tension the chain instead of loosening it and it would also stiffen up the rear suspension some which wouldn't be too bad anyway. It's not real soft right now but stiffening wouldn't hurt any.

[Liteway]

Yes, repositioning the shocks so that the swing am comes closer to level will have much the same affect as lowering the pivot. Should lesson or prevent the jacking when accelerating .

[mtntech]

I think you meant "lessen".

[Liteway]

Yes Mtntech, thinks for the "lesson" in spelling. I always welcome correction no mater how trivial or irrelevant to the discussion.


Seriously, There is not much technical info available here at the forum on swing arm geometry in comparison to front end stuff, even though its very important as to how a trike rides and handles.

I much wanted to back up my advise with some diagrams or info posted on the web. Did not find it with a rather casual search. I had found some a couple of years ago when I was having these problems, and I was working off my not always reliable memory.

If anybody sees something good, let us know.

[joeld0803]

I knew what you meant by lesson so no biggie.

It would be far easier to relocate the shock mount point than to lowere the pivot point of the swing arm and I believe it would accomplish the same effect.

The chain really doesn't slack off all that much in the travel I am noticing but apparently due to the weight it's enough.

I will get back to it when I get the chance but right now it's sitting in the shop waiting for some attention.....LOL!

[tryota]

Looks cool bet it will handle good even as heavy as that will be a good thing.

[joeld0803]

Ok so I finally spent some time on it and now have all the rear brake lighting installed and working. All blinkers mounted and working with the column switch as well as a 139 db dual tone horn mounted up front.

Started working on the dash today cutting out the panel and fitting it for headlight switches and push button start.

Here are a few recents of the almost completed progress.

[joeld0803]

Got the switches installed in the dash for start and lights and the column is now wired for blinkers and horn and all is up and working.



An image from further back





Seat belt mounted for driver and the other on order.



Also decided to add onto the rear for a license plate bracket and even mounted the original bandit plate registered in my name on it for the time being.







My new sprocket for the front came in and I am waiting on the new chain to arrive this week and hopefully I can get that all done and get the project home to run it around these back roads.

[joeld0803]

OK so the project is home now parked inide a covered building and I spent last weekend rebuilding the carbs and rejetting and installing a K&N high flow air filter kit on it. Also finished out the primer and got the rest of the frame painted.

Its running like a champ and sounds like an indy car.

Performance is excellent. No body roll issues even though there is no torsion bar. Grips in the turns and I achieved speeds in excess of 75 mph without any issues and still had room to go on the tach.

Speedometer calculation is off but had someone follow me and let me know where I was at on the speed. No pull in the steering and letting go of the wheel it tracks straight down the road. It handles the bunps in the road with ease with little to no bouncing in the cab and is actually smoother than most of the cars I have driven.

I now have everything working. Headlights, brake lights, tailights, blinkers, horn, seatbelts installed..........side mirrors and I am in the process of getting the paperwork done to get a VIN assigned to it.
I have to get a temporary plate so I can drive it down to a thrft inspector to get the proper form proving that all parts used in the construction were bought and paid for and not stolen but to get it there I also need insurance.

Running into some issues with issurance at the moment as far as the classification but after reading the insurance article will call a few of the ones listed. I do not want to have to trailer it down there when it is only 10 miles from me.

Here are recent photos

[kolibri]

Hey joeld,

fantastic job, congrats. You were very fast with this projekt, I looked to the first side, it was april when you started. Wow.

Wish you good luck to get your VIN and drive it legal.

Thank you for sharing the building process with us.

Greetings from Germany

Ralf

[joeld0803]

Already getting the run around from insurance companies and the title process must be done carefully to make sure it called what it is.
A motorcycled powered concept car.

They will allow a VW engine on a PIPE frame to be legal and drive on the road and it can be insured by Progressive. This is more or less a home built pipe buggy that I plan on putting a body on and they will not insure it due to the fact that it has a motorcycle engine for power. What gives?

A guy in West Texas took a wrecked Hyabusa and redisgned the frame so that it has 2 wheels in the front and he now has 2 wheels in the back and yet it is still tiltled as a motorcycle and since he used the main frame of the bike its legit and legal and has insurance for it although pictures were submitted as far as the modifications go. It's a 4 wheeled motorcycle called the sreet legal quad and this guy may be building more of them to sell from the looks of it.

I may have to tear the back end of this thing off and reconsruct it to install my original frame fromt the bike back into it unless it can be titled as a car and still use a motorcycle engine and get away with legality and insurance and inspection.

[mtntech]

Some laws just plain suck. Written by people who should be stuffing envelopes for a living.

[captainamerica]

This sort of vehicle code crap is exactly why I opted to build a three wheeler instead of a car, no one cares about safety if you build a motorcycle. I would rather have a race car for the road but the complications of registration and insurance are problematic. Hope you get it figured out.

[joeld0803]

I believe I found the solution to my delima.




A guy in West Texas is building these modified crotch quads.

The website is called high power quads and if you google licensing a quad it comes up in the search.

Apparently retaining the VIN number in the project along with the motorcycle engine is what needs to happen.
Even though this thing is 4 wheeled it is considered a motorcycle and legal to be road worthy whether it has 2,3, or 4 wheels or possible 6 for that matter.

The term 2 wheels being a motorcycle is not a true statement. 3 wheels are motorcycles whether they have a car engine or not apparently.

For instance there are car engines on Boss Hoss motorcycles and that is about as deadly custom as it it gets in my opinion but that doesn't matter because its classified as a motorcycle.
There are 3 wheeler conversions using VW engine and transmissions and only part of a frame with a motorcycle VIN on them classified as a motorcycle because of the VIN number on that frame. One guy built a 3 wheeler just that way and the only part from the original motorcycle frame left in the project was the neck that had the VIN. Everything else was built and it was registered as the VIN of the original motorcycle for that VIN.

Apparently all I need to do is get the VIN from my original frame and find some way of incorporating it into my build and I am thinking a support member for my steering column and what I have is a four wheel custom Suzuki Bandit motorcycle. It would then have the VIN that matches the engine and I have the original title of it. It would have to be inspected as a motorcycle because by the VIN it is a motorcycle and just because the parts are moved around it is still a motorcycle due to the VIN and the engine apparently.

As long as it has the safety requirements of a motorcycle it would pass the inspection which my project has and then some.

Someone at a custom build shop told me today if you take a duck and pluck out all of its feathers its still a duck and then went on to say if you take a motorcycle apart and rearrange the pieces and put it back together and it doesn't look the same for all intensive purposes the state cares mostly about the VIN numbers and the engine. Bikes dont really have a body but a vehicle is made up from the frame body and engine and as long as the key parts are there that match then you have a street legal vehicle called a motorcycle according to the VIN number assigned with the engine.


Do I need to incorporate more of my bike frame into it other than just the neck.....I am not sure but the VIN is the key and if you think about what I said about the 3 wheeled VW trike........the ONLY thing that mattered was the VIN to classify it as a motorcycle.

I may have found my answer by the laws standards.

Geting someone to insure it may be the issue but all I need is liability and now that I am certain I am keeping my original title and getting the frame part that has the VIN in it I will drive this BEAST as a motorcycle classification BY GOD!! LOL! After all that is exactlly what this guy in West Texas is doing with his High power QUADS. pretty darn sure it couldn't be as safe to drive that as it is my TRIXXI BANDIT.

It may take some hurdles with the law and could end up in court possibly but I guess we shall see. I may have to have my frame inspected to deem safe and that is where I could have an issue but if a structural engineer was to inspect it and approve it then there would be the answer to the saying it is unstructurally safe for the road. How safe is a motorcycle or a smart car for that matter.

[mtntech]

Incorporate the VIN of your donor bike into your frame like you said. If Texas allows a 4 wheeled motorcycle you're good to go.

[DaveJ98092]

Mar 10, 2013 1:27:06 GMT -5 mtntech said:

Incorporate the VIN of your donor bike into your frame like you said. If Texas allows a 4 wheeled motorcycle you're good to go.

Yeah, each state have different Reg's. Know yours before hand.[/u]

joeld0803, In Washington State that would be a car. Our reg's state 1-3 wheels on the road its a motorcycle. Good to go in all HOV lanes with 1 occupant.

If it has any of these it requires a special trike/sidecar endorsement: handelbar, motorcycle type seat without a lap belt, NOT inclosed Cokpit.

But if you have all these all you need is a ordinary car/truck license: Steering wheel, seat with lap/shoulder belt and inclosed Cokpit.

I met a guy that had a Liberty/Danson type outrigger trike kit on his 1800 Goldwing. He was pulled over for speeding. During the stop I'm sure he got lippy with the trooper. His bike was impounded for no trike endorsement and being a 4 wheel vehicle in the HOV lane.