home brew

[elanimal28]

So I drove it to my old job and back (8 miles round trip) a few minutes ago under 24F degrees Weather. The hills are very steep. The first is 3% grade and it's one city block long. The second it's down hill for 1/2 mile at 3% grade but remember I'll have to clime it up on my returned trip. Then I have 2 more 4% grade climb for about 3/4 of a mile a piece and the final hill before work is a 5% grade lasting .38 of a mile. On the last hill the trike was pulling 225 amps in 3Rd gear to maintain a steady 40 mph. I could have gone faster but I wanted to take it easy on my first run. I must say that the voltage lag was at 89.6 volts and I started to worry because it was 98.4 V when I left the house.
When I got home, After the batteries had reated about 5 minutes the voltage went up to 93.6v .

By the way motor was very hot. Soo hot I couldn't leave my hand on it when I touched it.

[DaveJ98092]

Heat is the number one killer of doing an EV. With every 10 degrees F you gain more resistance and loose efficency. I am looking for my book on the losses but can not find it.

You could pick up some copper refrigerator ice maker line and tightly wrap it around the motor and have a small cars radiator and a 12 volt water pump to flow 50/50% mix antifreeze around the motor. Run the water pump off the same 12 volt tap for the lights. Maybe run it first around the batteries to cool them down, if they get hot. You may need a couple sets as they are about 20 foot long. Like this:

www.homedepot.com/p/1-4-in-OD-x-20-ft-Copper-Soft-Refrigeration-Coil-PCLE-250R020/203654224?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-205854126-_-203654224-_-N

Or from Ebay is a 50 footer for for about $1 a foot shipped. www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CARDEL-REF-1-4-1-4-INCH-BY-50-FOOT-REFRIGERATION-HVAC-COPPER-TUBING-/110948629465?hash=item19d50dbbd9:m:mNf3HH_HYNplFBIbvIU2o2A

[elanimal28]

That's a great idea Dave. I'll look in to setting up something because the motor is the only questionable item in my build. I got it from someone who purchased it new several years ago but never installed it. There were times during my testdrive today that I could smell hot wires but I looked around and couldn't find anything. The only thing hot was the motor!!!

[elanimal28]

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[Liteway]

Don't know much about electric drives, but ignorance never keeps me from commenting.
It sounds like the engine is operating under a greater load than it was designed for.
Would more gear reduction lessen that load while still allowing usable road speed?

Though not as effective as what Dave is suggesting, a simple cooling fan would surely help, especially with proper engine shrouding.

It would be good if you could devise a means of monitoring engine temp while you develope/debug your ride. That way you can test effectiveness of overheat remedies and tell how hard the motor is having to work.

Congrats for getting it this far.

[dain]

I see you are using a pair of 4kwh Chevrolet Volt Battery modules (wired in parallel). Good choice, but be careful to monitor the voltage either manually or with some kind of BMS... they cannot be over charged or over discharged. For the most part if you are not drawing too much current on them they will tend to stay in balance.

My electric trike draws a similar amount of power up hills (96V x 225A + 21kw ~ 28hp) @40-45mph. If you are overheating your motor at 25F ambient, you are definitely overworking the motor... no amount of cooling will help you. A gearing change or a motor that can handle that amount of current is what you are going to need. A 52 mile round trip with careful driving and a well tuned machine is certainly possible on your 8kwh. I have about 4.5kwh useable and can make it 30 miles.

Triangulation: In the pics I've seen your frame has none - this is a major safety concern. Triangulation will turn bending moments into tension or compression, something steel tubing is very good at!

[elanimal28]

So while NYC is buried in snow I decided to work on ugly Betty. On my test drive I discovered that my front shocks (brand new) were too soft and were binding against the upper control arm. As a result, I was scraping the nose every time I exited the driveway and on a couple of bumps on the road. My front clearance was 3 inches.
I decided to kill 2 birds with on stone. I 1st fabricated an extension for the only shock I hand laying around from a ninja 250. The test worked and the right side went up to 6 inches then I decide to eliminate the ugly/heavy extension and cut the unsightly vw tower down. I'm going to test it first before I cut the top of the tower off.

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[DaveJ98092]

Are you still running the VW torsion bars? I do not remember if you are or not.

[dain]

If you have chosen to ignore my post I do not take offense, but if you are ignoring the points I've raised you are also ignoring reality.

[DaveJ98092]

Jan 25, 2016 12:19:11 GMT -5 dain said:

If you have chosen to ignore my post I do not take offense, but if you are ignoring the points I've raised you are also ignoring reality.

What Dain is saying is none of your frame points have any triangulational support. Boxes fold up if not triangulated. I took liberties and put some red lines on a copy of one of your photos, I did not modify your original.

[elanimal28]

Jan 25, 2016 0:34:01 GMT -5 DaveJ98092 said:

Are you still running the VW torsion bars? I do not remember if you are or not.

I eliminated the torsion bar because 1. It was in the way and 2. The weld that held it toguenther on one side broke off . I figuered I would come up with something latter on if it became an issue. So far at 60 mph on a small curve it didn't cause any problems. That's my to speed for this commuter tryke.



Dain I didn't ignore your post about trianguation. I took out the seats to see if I can weld 1 Inch steel tubes without having to cut the fiberglass. I designed the body to be one piece, so taking it off its not really an option I'm looking forward to doing.
I appreciate your post and anyone who takes their time to make a suggestion, specially when that suggestion can save my life at some point down the road. I was trying to come up with a solution before replying to the issue you raised.

[elanimal28]

Jan 25, 2016 15:17:51 GMT -5 DaveJ98092 said:

Jan 25, 2016 12:19:11 GMT -5 dain said:

If you have chosen to ignore my post I do not take offense, but if you are ignoring the points I've raised you are also ignoring reality.

What Dain is saying is none of your frame points have any triangulational support. Boxes fold up if not triangulated. I took liberties and put some red lines on a copy of one of your photos, I did not modify your original.

Thanks for the illustration. I only wished someone had learned that at the beginning when I had the bare frame. I was concerned about the weight and worried about adding unnesesary weight.

[DaveJ98092]

On the front of my trike build, IF I get around to it, will use Corvette A-arms and I will modify them to use coil overs but I will see if a AC DELCO Air shock ACDELCO 504557 for a 1963 - 1982 Corvette rear will work. I will post the part number but they are like $65 a set of two with air lines.

I have friends that run these on the back of their bikes.

[dain]

Excellent, I'm glad you didn't skip over it! Sorry I didn't comment early on this I haven't been a member for very long!!

By your picture, it can be seen that the frame is already starting to bow under just the empty weight of the vehicle. The frame bits that Dave drew in would certainly help, sometime this evening I will post my version of it.

[elanimal28]

It bent earlier on in the construction but I just went ahead with it.
At this point:



I kept sitting in it to find the best sitting arrangement and then it was left like that for several weeks before I was able to finish the top part of the frame. 

When I build the next one, it'll have a straight frame

[dain]

LOL - we are all guilty of sitting in/on our vehicles before we should... Last year I was building an ultra-light weight trike (<100lbs) out of electric bicycle parts that a person would pedal but also be able to run 30mph or so, anyway I get it all tacked together and go sit on it to check it my spring rates were close on the suspension - the whole thing exploded! I was so mad I tossed it in a box and haven't messed w it since.

[DaveJ98092]

Dain, I have seen where guys have tack welded a frame together, installed all engine and componets to see how any mods would need to be done and then drive it up to 50 MPH, all with just tack welds. Sitting in it before we should may not be too bad, NEVER drive it that way.

[2rike]

Jan 30, 2016 19:07:12 GMT -5 elanimal28 said:

Speaking of sitting, I sat ugly Betty on a uhaul today to get her to the weigh master. lol

I  do not know much about electric trikes, but is 1200 lb an average sort of weight? 

[elanimal28]

Jan 31, 2016 15:45:55 GMT -5 2rike said:

I  do not know much about electric trikes, but is 1200 lb an average sort of weight? [/quote]


That's a good question. I based my 1200 pound goal on the Cushman 3 wheeler truckster that I own. My first idea was to convert the cushman because I read up on someone who did it in Florida with good results. As I started to gather parts I decided to build my own trike instead. Because I had gather similar components as the fellow who converted his trike in Florida, I figured if I stuck to the same weigh with the same components I would have similar results.

[dain]

Mine is 1100lbs