"Sting"

[Ray]

I'm beginning my RT project. I'm dubbing my project "Sting" because my name is Ray. I'm planning on using a 86 Honda GL1200 as my power train. I will use a VW ghia front end because of the disk breaks. I recently bought a sand rail frame but I will need your help to determine if it is adequate before I get too much invested in it. relatively light. I picked it up by myself without the front end. For the pictures, I put a cbr600 frame in place just to get some proportion. I strapped the VW front end just to see what it would look like. The sand rail had a homemade front suspension that was missing some major parts. It will need modification to attach the VW front end. My biggest concern is the thickness of the square frame. It is 1x1" 1/8 thick. Not sure what that means to the gauge. I'm thinking it will need reinforcements.

[1983JZR3W]

Looks like a good start. Keep us posted.

[captainamerica]

Hey I highly recommend using imgur.com for your picture uploads, they come in full size when you link to them. Looking like you have a good start.

-Andrew

[stretchmobileski]

Look at places that supply sand rails. They make 2 piece clamps for the front end. I used them on my build. You should also consider welding some adjusters in the front end. It will sit high because of the light weight. Box tubing is ok, round is stiffer. Easier to attach panels to box. It will be getting long if you put the front end at the very front and the bike tire will be about 2' past the frame in the rear. You can get rotors with different bolt patterns so that you aren't limited for wheel choices. 4x130mm (stock bug), 5x130(Porsche), 5x4 3/4"(Chevy) and 5x4 1/2" (Ford) or you can get blanks and have them drilled any pattern. Where in CA are you?

[Ray]

Thanks for the tips. Here are some higher resolution pictures. 

[Ray]

More picts

[Ray]

Feb 14, 2014 21:59:16 GMT -5 stretchmobileski said:

Look at places that supply sand rails. They make 2 piece clamps for the front end. I used them on my build. You should also consider welding some adjusters in the front end. It will sit high because of the light weight. Box tubing is ok, round is stiffer. Easier to attach panels to box. It will be getting long if you put the front end at the very front and the bike tire will be about 2' past the frame in the rear. You can get rotors with different bolt patterns so that you aren't limited for wheel choices. 4x130mm (stock bug), 5x130(Porsche), 5x4 3/4"(Chevy) and 5x4 1/2" (Ford) or you can get blanks and have them drilled any pattern. Where in CA are you?

Thanks for the info. I didn't know what to do about the rims. I'm thinking what I'll probably do is start with a couple of $15 stock rims then in the future upgrade. I know a guy that has some really nice rims for a Datsun 240z - 4 lug that would look really nice.

The box tubing was already built so didn't have much choice, but for $100 I think it gave me a good start. I was inspecting the front attachment for the beam and will have to make some heavy modifications to make it work. I am tempted to buy a VW Bug front clip and attach it to my frame. I think I will mount it high to lower the frame closer to the ground. It is true that the wheel base will be long. I can't seem to find a way to shorten it without a complete redesign by ditching the goldwing frame. I'm estimating a 9'-9-1/2' wheel base. With a long wheel base, I'm concerned about the body look. I don't want it to look awkward. I'm thinking also about long tubes front to back underneath extending out the back to support the motorcycle frame. I have a nice Yamaha FJ600 chain drive I could use instead of the shaft drive goldwing but it is an aircooled vs water, and a lot less power. Not too thrilled about that configuration but the pictures I put a CBR600 frame in place to get perspective. The Goldwing is longer but not by much. To shorten it, I'd have to redesign the thingypit (I'll have to do that anyway, some). 

The front end of the buggy frame has a home built suspension but it is missing some major components so that is why I wanted to use the VW beam since I already had that. I'm trying to build this on a low budget. 

I live in Lakeport, ca on the west bank of Clear Lake. 

[Deleted]

Get the center part of the VW frame, saw it off and incorporate into your existing frame, so you have something solid to mount your axle to. The holes match up and the angle is pre-set.

Also, add gussets to the corners and strengthen up the frame.

Good luck on this one - it looks like a lot of fun.

[stretchmobileski]

The way the beam attaches to a stock vw concentrates all the forces in a small area. It makes it hard to adequately brace it on tube frame. Aftermarket mounts can be pushed out to the ends of the beam and make for a much stronger and cleaner look. These:



or these



These are cheap and easy to use. I like the C clamp style ones. The adjusters make the ride height easily adjustable and are convenient. They are a little tricky to install. That's why I asked where you were. It you were closer I could install them for you. I have installed many of them.

[stretchmobileski]

Here is a picture of the clamps on a generic buggy. You could just weld the beam to your frame. It doesn't need to be removable.

[Ray]

Thanks for the detail and the pictures. I cut the frame yesterday so the rail can fit in the space I may move it into the frame more. This will lower the front some. The adjusters would be great but I will need help welding those if I go that way. I know a couple of people that might be able to help me weld it. I'm thinking about getting a wire feed electric welder. I haven't welded in years. It is about time I learn again. This project will tax all my skills and some.

[stretchmobileski]

Lots of good advice on this forum about welders. www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=858097&highlight=wire+welder . I bought a used Millermatic 200 20 years ago. Still serves me great. Go with gas shielding, flux wire is crap. Splatter and ugly welds. Wire size is important. .23 wire is good for thin sheet metal. .30 is good for general welding and .35 is for thick metal. Here is how to install the adjusters www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ciOjDeKZrY . Most of all have fun!

[Ray]

Front view after I cut the frame to fit the bar.

[Ray]

I found out today that my doner bike has some engine issues. One cylinder has something stuck to it along with some rust. I've dropped the engine out today. I'll have to see if it is viable to clean it out and hone or if I will need to bore it one size up. I may need to replace the engine.

I got a welder this past week. It is a Lincoln 225 AC stick welder. Now I need power to my work area. It seems there are always demands on my limited budget. I cut the top off my frame to change the seating position and move it closer to the front end. I also bought a VW steering wheel and column. I've made a little progress but it is agonizingly slow.

[jim99]

Hi Ray,
You have a great start on what can be a very satisfying project and a great way to improve and learn new skills.

One skill you need to learn and apply right now before you invest any more time, money or effort, is how to find, read and understand your state DMV regulations regarding the building and registering of a reverse trike. I can not stress this point strongly enough. It can make the difference between your project being a great success or a huge disappointment.

Do your own investigation of the rules, regs and procedures, others can assist with their experience and knowledge, but when someone says “Don’t worry” about something, or “I know how you can get around that reg”, start worrying about it!!!!!

When we start a project like ours, one must realize that our society has decided what they will and will not allow to be registered and driven on public roads. No difference than building a house, we must follow some rules and laws, whether we want to or not. But if we know the “rules” of the game up front, we can usually be successful whether we are building a house or a reverse trike.

On to your build, one suggestion I will give you, is watch the weight of your build. Old race car building saying. “Worry about the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves.” Weight will quickly kill performance and is hard on the motorcycle clutch.

Good Luck with your build and keep us posted.

Jim

[DaveJ98092]

Apr 6, 2014 10:00:12 GMT -5 jim99 said:

Hi Ray,
You have a great start on what can be a very satisfying project and a great way to improve and learn new skills.

One skill you need to learn and apply right now before you invest any more time, money or effort, is how to find, read and understand your state DMV regulations regarding the building and registering of a reverse trike. I can not stress this point strongly enough. It can make the difference between your project being a great success or a huge disappointment.

Do your own investigation of the rules, regs and procedures, others can assist with their experience and knowledge, but when someone says “Don’t worry” about something, or “I know how you can get around that reg”, start worrying about it!!!!!

When we start a project like ours, one must realize that our society has decided what they will and will not allow to be registered and driven on public roads. No difference than building a house, we must follow some rules and laws, whether we want to or not. But if we know the “rules” of the game up front, we can usually be successful whether we are building a house or a reverse trike.

On to your build, one suggestion I will give you, is watch the weight of your build. Old race car building saying. “Worry about the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves.” Weight will quickly kill performance and is hard on the motorcycle clutch.

Good Luck with your build and keep us posted.

Jim

I agree with Jim, good advice. Too many times a builder will get all finished with a build and then find out that his area DOL/DMV will not allow it to get registered. You can sometimes buy a "Roller" kit cheap at their huge loss.

Welding tube with a stick welder will work but is a challenge for most. But some 7018 in 3/16 rod sure look pretty when laid down right. Use a lot of "Spatter Spray" to keep the weld splatter boogers at bay.

There is a fine line on needed weight and where to put it. Using just enough bolt threads to do the job, knowing where to put one brace bar to eliminate two or three in another place and so many other things can save 100's of ounces. In the Nascar Sprint Cup cars, they must weigh 3300 pounds + 180 Lbs for the driver and if you can cut all the weight from the top and left side and move it down low and right, the better. This matters on our trike builds as all weight added must be placed in a balanced place as low down as possible.

Hey Ray, if you do need to replace that GL1200, try to get a GL1500 or GL1800 as they have a reverse drive for backing up. A local auction house that sells ALL titled vehicles to the public or places like www.Copart.com sell "salvage titled" vehicles to the public. Doing the wiring for a more modern GL1500/1800 is more of a challenge but can be done. You can sell off all the GL1200 parts on places like www.classicgoldwings.com or other Goldwing sites.

[Ray]

Thanks for the advice. I did start looking into the regs, but haven't found out much. I was thinking about stopping by my local police office and ask them about vehicle codes, etc. I found the CA vehicle code online but I didn't find the rebuild or modifications areas that I needed. For sure the trike is registered as a motorcycle. I figured if I already had a motorcycle registration, it would be simple to convert it. I'll probably need inspections etc.

I hadn't considered a GL1500 or GL1800 because of the cost of the bikes. I'll have to think about that. I already sell parts on ebay so selling off my GL1200 parts would not be an issue. I have it all apart now anyway. Originally, I wanted to build an electric vehicle but I decided to go with what I already know, thus the GL1200.

Thanks for the advice on weight. I don't expect it will be too heavy, but I could be wrong. Right now it seems too light but I don't have the fiberglass body built yet.

[Ray]

Another good day of work. I finished disassembling the goldwing today completely. I positioned the frame roughly where it will go. The engine is almost apart. I got the registration today for the donor bike today too. Tomorrow I will determine the actual position of the mc frame in my rough frame and the position of the seats and front end. I can't start tacking it in because I don't have power to my welder yet.

[Ray]

I bought another crankcase for my gold wing. I've started transferring the insides. A couple more days I will have it back together and hopefully I can start it. Then I can resume work on the frame.

[Ray]

Feb 16, 2014 15:50:03 GMT -5 stretchmobileski said:

Here is a picture of the clamps on a generic buggy. You could just weld the beam to your frame. It doesn't need to be removable.

So I bought the clamps but it seems that the grease fittings are in the way. Any ideas? I was thinking about grinding the clamp to clear the fitting.