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Post by danwyke on Mar 6, 2009 10:28:33 GMT -5
In the interest of discussion, I thought I would throw this out there. Has anyone thought about using one of the wide custom chopper motorcycle tires for the rear? I believe Avon makes up to a 300 section width tire (18" rim). There could be sufficient contact patch with a tire that wide for straight line acceleration, even with the curvature. It would also reduce the impact from body roll on a 3-wheeler as you would have a more consistent contact patch.
I looked into it and decided from a cost perspective, the combination of the custom rim and tire would be too high but prices may come down in the future? Or someone may have connections with a supplier. I'm committed to a car tire at this point but thought it would be food for thought/discussion...
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Post by sydog on Oct 5, 2011 9:16:29 GMT -5
danwyke, wide motorcycle tires do not have enough contact area. They are wide but the are round to enable leaning around curves on the bike. You're better off to go with a flatter car tire.
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Post by jim99 on Oct 5, 2011 19:11:16 GMT -5
I went with a Yokohama S Drive 195/45/17 automotive type tire. Based solely on the cross section width of the tire, so as to get the widest tire possible in the stock swing arm and mounted on the stock Suzuki rim. Have been very pleased so far, outstanding dry traction. Have not been on wet roads yet. 3,000 miles on tire at this point.
Jim
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Post by danwyke on Oct 7, 2011 4:38:35 GMT -5
"There could be sufficient contact patch with a tire that wide for straight line acceleration, even with the curvature. It would also reduce the impact from body roll on a 3-wheeler as you would have a more consistent contact patch."
I posted this thought more from the perspective of solving the issue of body roll and maintaining a consistent contact with the road in that situation . One would have to compare the actual contact patch from a 300 section width motorcycle tire, versus the car tires that most use on their trikes. Compared to a 300 section width car tire, yes it would have less contact patch available, but for something as light as most trikes I don't believe you need that much.
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Post by srx660 on Oct 7, 2011 19:30:33 GMT -5
I really think it is more of a cost thing than anything else on trike tires. Costs of $200 to $350 for a wide chopper tire that lasts maybe 6-8000 miles can get expensive. $100 lowprofile car tires work just as well and usually last 30000 miles. I know what i would buy.
SRX660
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Post by jim99 on Oct 7, 2011 20:32:00 GMT -5
I tried the motorcycle tire before I switched to an automotive type tire. The motorcycle tire did not work out very well for me.
The rear tire on a reverse trike is very lightly loaded. Basically a motorcycle without the weight of a rider/riders. That is a large percentage of the operating weight of a motorcycle now missing.
Moderate throttle would cause uncontrolled wheel spin in lower gears. Add side loading (turns/corners) during wheel spin and directional stability decreases rapidly. Or in other words "Holy Crap" the rear end tries to pass the front end very quickly.
Jim
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Post by jim99 on Mar 15, 2012 19:10:49 GMT -5
Hi,
My information is totally un-reliable.
First trike I built I used a 3500 Series Chevy truck rim and a Goodyear F1 225-50-R16 auto tire. That combination worked great. I put about 4,000 miles on that trike. Trike also had four shocks (two on swing arm). Handled great with no anti-roll bar on front.
Second trike has stock Suzuki Hayabusa rim (17") with a Yokohama S-Drive auto tire 195-45-R17. Have not had any problems with this combination, but have not driven it to limits yet. This trike has three shocks, stock mono shock on rear. It handles like a pig on ice. Lots of body roll in hard corners. I need to add a good stiff anti-roll bar on front to improve handling.
Jim
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Sept 29, 2012 0:00:24 GMT -5
Noob posting on a half year old post so take it or leave it.
I am a Darksider on a motorcycle and have done this for many years. I only run a Car tire in the rear and for me it works.
An answer to the question above, I have a bit of info on the car tire to motorcycle rim bead seating.
A motorcycle 14 inch rim does not have the same radius as a car rim, it is longer than a 14 inch car/truck rim. So a motorcycle rim/tire has a larger over all circumference. What this means is a Car tire is deeper in the rims seat and will not pop off any easier. That said, the problem that crops up is the bead does not want to seat as easy. Almost all modern motorcycle rims have a drop down area for the tire to be easily mounted. That part of the rim must be polished real smooth, NOT GRINDED, just super smooth. Then you need to lube that part of the rim with a real slippery tire lube of your choice, I use a NAPA truck tire lube. Just slime it up and then slime up the tires beads. You may need to pump it up to over 80 PSI. It will take it no problem.
Make sure that the bead is seated all the way around.
DO NOT RIDE ON A TIRE NOT SEATED 100% AS BLOW OFF AND DEATH IS LIKELY!!!!
I run a 165/65 SR 14 on the back of my Burgman 650 that was factory 160/60 HR 14. Please do not bash me here if you think this is stupid. PM me. Do not poison this topic please.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Sept 29, 2012 0:18:47 GMT -5
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Sept 29, 2012 17:33:03 GMT -5
TripleT, If you go to any motorcycle forum some riders will put a car tire on the rear Motorcycle rim. That is coined the "DARKSIDE". I did not make that name.  But if you want to see a bigger flaming war than "What OIL..." read a Darkside post. NASTY. Wear Nomex. Riding a trike with Car Tires all around is safe as long as the speed rating is observed. But the speed rating is for a tire mounted with correct air pressure then the maximum load is placed on it and brought up to the maximum speed for two minuets. The 165/65 SR 14 on my scooter is rated to 112 MPH at a load range of like 1400 pounds at 42 PSI. I can not put 1400 pounds on the whole bike and ride on the rear only at 112 MPH so I figure I am safe doing a true 115 every once in a while. |
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Post by Giovanni LiCalsi on Sept 30, 2012 2:49:21 GMT -5
The number one problem with most reverse trikes is that they have very poor weight distribution or CG. There needs to be more weight moved forward on a rear wheel drive RT. The small contact area on a rear tire becomes a dangerous situation in a panic maneuver in an intersection to avoid a collision . A reverse trike CG should be just behind the front axle. This creates more control by distributing the total weight of the trike evenly on each wheel. Another consideration that can be life-saving is build the RT as lightweight and as rigid of a chassis as possible. My RT will weigh, fully loaded, 750Lbs. but it will be nearly 16ft. in length and 3ft. in width. I am using front wheel drive to get the CG right. I am fabricating Inrekor type design monocoque chassis. inrekor.com/Inrekor designed and built a monocoque chassis for a 356 Porsche, so it is very light, rigid and extremely durable. The great thing about this design is you can buy your own aluminum sheets and bond the rigid polyethylene foam board to the sheets with a thermoset adhesive, using a powder-coating oven. Electrical cables can be routed inside the foam, before thermosetting . Regards, Giovanni |
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Post by Giovanni LiCalsi on Sept 30, 2012 12:40:40 GMT -5
Thank you for your input.
My RT will use 2 - 15KW brushless motors positioned ahead of the front axle. Each motor will independently drive each front axle with each motor using its own electronic speed controller. The 15KW lithium battery pack will be positioned just behind the front axle with the speed controllers. The extra length in the chassis is required for mounting the battery pack low and also have room for stowage. The extra length also makes a much smoother riding RT. The rear single-sided swingarm will be the new carbon fiber Ducati 1098 type design, made by BST. The 3 wheels will be CF by BST, all Ducati 1098 design. The front suspension will be Formula One. It will have a battery capacity of 150 miles at 70 mph. Lithium battery packs will be reducing in weight and size by 30% in less than 2 years because of the new anode/cathode developments. I am a consultant to electric vehicle companies and see the trend of very efficient EVs being on the road, soon.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Sept 30, 2012 17:46:26 GMT -5
Cool:<<<SNIP>> I'm a soon to be retired central office tech for the local phone company.[/u] All my engineering expertise(?) comes from reading Road& Track for 45 yrs. I've always loved lightweight sport bikes for their screaming engines. agility and raw mechanical appeal. I've owned a number over the years. Never could adapt to the discomfort of those narrow seats, low bars and poor wind protection. Heavy sport / tourers hold no appeal, just too clumsy, hence my desire to build a tiny screaming trike. [ Not one of those goofy things with a skinny tire out front and a car axle in back.(sorry to those I offend, its only my opinion and I'm sure they work for those forced to bring mama along)]. Its been the answer to my needs , providing thrills and all day comfort to accompany my buddy on his sport bike to wherever and not get left behind. I feel a bit sorry for him perched up there precariously in the wind. Takes all kinds to make a world. [/quote] Small world we live in, I am a CZT-2 (Customer Zone Technician level 2) meaning a Outside telephone repair tech. I am trained in CO, PBX, Fios Fiber-optics TV/Data for Frontier. The idea of weight balance on a reverse trike is a challenge for sure. My plans (Still in my head) are to mount all the heavy stuff up as far forward to load it. A 12 gallon fuel cell, the battery and radiator can easly be put up in the nose with enough crash protection that is. I have a 1100cc Goldwing engine or a 650 Burgman CVT unit I can use for power. Both weigh about 350 pounds wet. So I must re-proportion some heaver items up front. For the brakes, I plan on using a automatic proportional valve like what was used on like the 81-84 Dodge Rampage pickups, the more weight put in the bed the more brake bias is put on the rear wheels. On a reverse trike, with a full load of gas, rider and gear the fronts get more bias but as the gas is used up, less bias. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 9:46:01 GMT -5
MC tires will not provide enough contact area and have a very short life expectancy. The tire profile is all wrong to a stationary bike.
Standard Automotive radial tires will last 70k plus at a cost of $80-100 each.
I am running a pair of 165x60x14 on the front and 205x60x16 on the rear of all my RT's.
Front pressure of 18psi and rear of 26. Ride and traction are excellent and I fully expect 70k out of all of them.
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Post by TomyJ on Nov 8, 2013 0:32:22 GMT -5
What would the advantage of "trailer tires" be? side movement?
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Post by mtntech on Nov 11, 2013 11:34:28 GMT -5
The number one problem with most reverse trikes is that they have very poor weight distribution or CG. There needs to be more weight moved forward on a rear wheel drive RT. The small contact area on a rear tire becomes a dangerous situation in a panic maneuver in an intersection to avoid a collision . A reverse trike CG should be just behind the front axle. This creates more control by distributing the total weight of the trike evenly on each wheel. Another consideration that can be life-saving is build the RT as lightweight and as rigid of a chassis as possible. My RT will weigh, fully loaded, 750Lbs. but it will be nearly 16ft. in length and 3ft. in width. I am using front wheel drive to get the CG right. I am fabricating Inrekor type design monocoque chassis. inrekor.com/Inrekor designed and built a monocoque chassis for a 356 Porsche, so it is very light, rigid and extremely durable. The great thing about this design is you can buy your own aluminum sheets and bond the rigid polyethylene foam board to the sheets with a thermoset adhesive, using a powder-coating oven. Electrical cables can be routed inside the foam, before thermosetting . Regards, Giovanni 3 feet wide? Are you sure you don't want to go a little wider on the front? |
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Post by Liteway on Nov 11, 2013 19:25:58 GMT -5
They are called "trailer tires" for a reason, being made with different functional considerations than car tires. Tend to have hard sidewalls for load bearing and tread is made for rolling straight ahead, not for maneuvering. They often have bias ply construction as opposed to radial. The only reason I can think of to use them is if someone cannot find something that's street legal to fit a 10" atv rim. Yokohama makes a proper car tire that will fit and is DOT approved.
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Post by Giovanni LiCalsi on Dec 25, 2013 1:47:56 GMT -5
The widest section of the body is 3ft wide, not the wheel track.
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But if you want to see a bigger flaming war than "What OIL..." read a Darkside post. NASTY. Wear Nomex. 
