New member: Building my own Trike

[isaiahcrem]

Hey everyone, after browsing through this forum for a few months I've decided to start my build. I have a background in mechanical engineering and have fiddled with four-wheelers, snowmobiles, motorcycles, and lots of other things. Mostly making/modifying things in the garage. Three years ago I bought a mig welder and decided to learn how to weld. Although I'm no expert, I am confident in my abilities to melt metal together in a functional fashion.

Here are the rough specifications of my build:

-1.25" x 1.25" square steel tubing for the main frame
-Seating arrangement similar to that of a polaris slingshot
-NB Miata front knuckles and steering rack
-The frame will be married to a motorcycle frame similar to some builds on the forum.I'm looking to avoid the registration hassles of a completely new vehicle. I'm currently in the market for an R1 or GSXR1000, just need to find one and snag it.
-I drew up a basic model of the tube frame in Autodesk Inventor and will include a screenshot below. I'm no pro so please don't judge my CAD skills. I'll be using this for rough dimensions as I build.
-More to come as I further develop my plans

Update #1 March 28:
-Decided on push-rod front suspension using two R1 rear shocks that I got for a steal locally. Hopefully they will have enough spring rate. If not I will sell on ebay and look for other options.
-I plan to try Rigid Transmission cable to manipulate the shifter.
-Found a set of 16x7 wheels to trade for my Xbox One (Since I don't really play video games anymore)
-Seats will be arriving today
-I have a lead on a pedal box from a friend
-Need a bigger welding gas bottle, almost done with the second fill already.


UPDATE 4/23/2018: If you do not see a new post from me, it is likely that I have not had time to get on and write a good post. When I make progress, I save photos into a google drive folder. See the Link below:

drive.google.com/open?id=1oBlSssnbgsK_iEgZtF5DRVPc_4wc69sR
 

[isaiahcrem]

Oh, this weekend officially marks starting work on the build!

[DaveJ98092]

Looks like a start.

Some things to add to the shopping list to make life easier and safer.

1. Two or three ABC fire extungushers!!! Sparks fly and remain hot for minuets. I have had a fire behind me when welding and could not see it till I let off the gun. I covered it over with my fiberglass/Asbestos blanket then doused it with water...

2. Weldable Primer. Use it to keep rust at bay on all weld joints.

3. Splatter spray. Use it on the nosle of the welder so cleaning it is easier. Also on panels so splatter does not stick.

4. Depending on eye sight, I have 2X lenses in my helmet to bring the weld arc point into better view.

5. Back-lighting. As soon as the weld arc starts your focus will be at the arc point so some back lighting will help fill in the space around the weld.

6. A rotisserie of some sort for flipping the frame over for welding the bottom. I am citified for welding in all positions but flat and down is always better and easier. Some have gotten two Engine stands from like Harborfreight and modified them so they rotate flat. They are set up tilted back some due to you putting a 700 pound engine on. I just added a steel shim under both back wheels on the ones I have. I added 2 inch EMT steel conduit pipes in an X between both rear roller sections of the engine stands to keep them aligned. It worked well on a 74 Triumph TR6 body.

There will be more as time goes on.

If you have ever seen pictures of the Space Needle in Seattle, those three columbs are all welded up "Stick" welds in what is called 3G. Millions of 6011 welding rods were used.

I sat down and watched "Project Blinkie" to learn CAD (Cardboard Assisted Design). Those guys are nuts in what they can make without a computer.
Just put a KETTLE on and set back and watch.

[isaiahcrem]

Thanks for the reply Dave!

I have two ABC extinguishers in the garage. One with the welding cart and one on the wall. I too was weary of a fire due to the clutter I have in the garage. I spent about an hour today clearing things up.

My eyesight is 20/15 with my contacts so I haven't thought about the 2x lense in the helmet. I'll look into that, but I do use a bright flashlight on the work area.

After flipping the frame over a couple times today, I would have invested the money in two of the engine stands. There's a harbor freight pretty close to me so I'll have to do some shopping.

One lesson I haven't figured is how to deal with parts wanting to warp/contract after welding. I had the four corners blocked/shimmed today to try to keep the frame as straight as possible, but I still had about a half inch of rise in one of the corners. I tried to separate the welds diagonally to prevent heat soaking a small area. I'll have to figure out a way to correct that before making much more progress.

I did spend some time today on the front framework and my upper control arms. I'll attach a couple pictures.

[DaveJ98092]

I think you are doing full welds on all joints. Try just heavy tack welds so it can flex some as you are going. Then once all the main tubes are in place you can buzz up the full welds.

[isaiahcrem]

I have been doing tacks until everything is in place. Probably not big enough tacks, but once everything is in place I start with complete welds of the joints. Switching from area to area as to not heat soak one area. Maybe I bumped something and caused this misalignment not from welding, but something as dumb as leaning on something too hard and etc.

[captainamerica]

Just a quick thought, Im glad your using ball joints (I made the mistake of not the first time around) but you are losing all of the benefit when you weld that half A-arm like that. Do yourself a favor, for $10 you can buy weld in ball joint rings like in the link below. I buy mine from SRI racing parts, cause I live near them. If you give them (SRI) a call, tell them you want upper ball joints and rings from a NASCAR cup car, they should be about the right size for your vehicle's lower arms and made by Moog to boot. This is what I am using on the Spartan V2 so you can look at the later pages on my forum page and see how they work. For $100 you can have a pair of both rings ($10 each) and ball joints ($40 each) brand new, you just fixture the ring on the jig to match the current position that you have there and cut the tubes so they meet nicely and you're off and running with a custom A-arm that looks good and there wont be a question about how strong it is. The added benefit here is that if the ball joint ever needs to be replaced you just unthread it and put a new one in, no need to get crazy with a torch and/or hydraulic press. Welds look good by the way.

www.ubmachine.com/balljointsleeves.html

www.sriperformance.com/

[isaiahcrem]

Thanks for the info! I'll definitely be researching those since it would probably work out better than what I've got going right now.

The reasons I'm using the original miata ball joints is for simplicity and budget friendliness. I bought a whole miata front end attached to a sub-frame from a guy parting out his car. Got it all for $200 including the steering rack. If I were to buy the front uprights and steering rack separately, I'd have already been above that price-point. I've got the brake calipers, a set of rotors, and the sway bar. Plus, I still have money to gain back selling the sub-frame.

Update of progress will be posted shortly.

[isaiahcrem]

Update April 13, 2018:
Haven't gotten around to updating this thread in a while. Been working on the frame off and on since the last update. 

Picture #24-Seats came in so, naturally, I had to see what they looked like in place.

Pictures #25 & 26- Added more structure to the frame, I apologize for no pictures as I went. I was very focused on keeping the frame aligned and everything straight and true while placing/cutting bars. I'm not totally convinced on the bars that angle down towards the front "box." I think the execution isn't as good as I pictured it in my head. More to follow As I address other things like the steering rack and steering shaft.


I'm finding issues as I go and have learned that I need to get better at drawing up 3D Models. It would reduce the amount of hiccups and issues when transferring from design to reality. I have strayed from my design at multiple points in favor of tweaks that better fit the intended purpose. I'm also wasting some material from time to time doing mock-ups. I've since started using scrap wood to layout my thoughts/tweaks.

Another note, things always look MUCH different for me when I can see them in person and look at it from multiple viewpoints/perspectives. I've always been one to rely on my intuition and past experience tinkering with materials, random projects, and other things in the garage. It makes things a little easier for me to move forward without much worry and with confidence. Whether that confidence is misjudged or not.....

[isaiahcrem]

More Updates April 13/2018: I'm catching up on lost time.

Picture#21- Here's an average-above average of my welds. I'm not perfect, but I can make strong joints.

Picture #28- Had to put the seats in again to get another feel for the design vs. actual product. The bar circled in red will likely be removed and raised to allow for pedal travel.

[isaiahcrem]

Another Update:

Picture #38- Everything in place and fixtured. Tack welds all over.

Picture #39- The finished pieces. I used 1/8" plate. Hopefully it is strong enough.... Will be keeping an eye on these.

[isaiahcrem]

Another..... Front Suspension Mock-Up

Picture #40- Fixtured and tacked all of the mounting tabs. These tabs are 3/16" thick. They seem very sturdy.

Picture #41- Notice my mistake...... Messed up with a measurement when I fixtured the upper control arms. Gonna have to cut those up and lengthen. Notice the amount of camber vs. where I am adjusted at the rod ends. All out of adjustment and there's still a few degrees of "stance" ( If you follow current car trends).

Third picture- an example of said "stance" mentioned above.

[isaiahcrem]

Last Update until I get more work done this weekend..

I got to work on the "roll bar" this week. Its all tacked in place and triple checked the alignment since this will be highly visible when finished.

Notice how small my Argon bottle is... The frustration of running out of gas hit me right after tacking this bar into place. So I grabbed a beer and called it quits for the night.

Oh, forgot to mention the seat-mounting-bars are permanently in place.

[DaveJ98092]

Are you using pure Argon or a 25/75 mix? The 25% Argon/75% C02 gives a bit hotter arc and better flow of the metal. I use pure Argon for Tig but for Mig I use 25/75.

So far so good. I can show you some nastier welds that have still done the job.

[isaiahcrem]

I'm using 25/75 mix. It seems like the best with the welder that I have.

Its a Campbell Hausfeld 140a running off 120v, 20A outlet. Bought it from Menards at a good price, I haven't tripped the duty cycle yet so that's good.

[DaveJ98092]

You are at about the MAX that the welder can handle. If you look real close you do not want any undercut on the beads or else its like gluing the pipe/tube joints and not melting them together and the "glue" joint can peel off. Welding is "Casting" Metal in place by FIRST melting the two parts and then blending the melt with a filler.

I have used a propane torch on the first inch of a weld to pre-heat it so the welds lay flater. My Lincoln is a 220v 155 Amp so I do not have much more amparage than your 140 Amp.

There are a few techniques that most of us Home Shop welders can learn from Youtube vids. Lazy e's or o's of walking the cup, Trailing the cup or pushing the cup.... They all can help when using a light Amp welder.

In this vid, pay attension to his on screen comments near the end where he has less penetration or UNDERCUT. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihorndQTyGE

[isaiahcrem]

Dave,

I am familiar with heating the work pieces beforehand. I had a project in the past that was 1/4" thick steel. The welds would not have held without pre-heating.

But as far as the trike build goes, I have not had any issue with my welders capabilities. Thanks for the video, I might watched that one before but I can't remember since I watched as many tip+trick videos I could find.

Isaiah

[isaiahcrem]

Been working on the trike as much as possible, but with work and Army obligations I haven't done to much lately.

I have been able to get the front shocks mocked up and had a chance to stand on the front end with shocks in place. My body weight was not enough to flex the shocks, unless I bounced aggressively. I think I might have gotten pretty lucky with my guesswork. Suspension travel will be somewhere in the range of 3-6 inches. I haven't taken good measurements, but I hope that will handle adequately.

I will not be attaching the photos in here unless the community prefers this. But I will share the link to the google drive folder that has all of the photos in high resolution. I think that will improve viewing pleasure and leave more room to zoom in on details that someone may be interested in.

Here's the link again (All of the pictures are numbered sequentially, I will also reference them in my update posts): drive.google.com/file/d/1E3Oa_M5hCVPB3oofgoRzgnd7nrCdXFsR/view?usp=sharing

Picture #46- Forgot to take pictures at each step, but This bar will be my "Dashboard". 

Picture #47- My roommate was hanging out with me while I worked and decided to model his driving habits, Complete with a cigar and beer close by. (He doesn't actually drink and drive, that's no bueno)

Pictures #48 & #49- Added a couple structural bars from the dash all the way to the front end. These ended up nearly parallel with the bars just adjacent to them. Completely by chance, but nonetheless I like the look of it so far.

Pictures #50 & #51- I was working out how I planned on mounting the push-rod, linkage, and shock by letting it float around using a few clamps.

Pictures #53, #53, & #54- The result of the mock-up. Disregard the stack of washers at each pivot point, I didn't have the correct length bolts when I was fixturing everything. Pic #54 shows a peek at the set of wheels I found for the front end. 16" Enkei's that need stripped and repainted, but I got them for basically free. Will need new tires as well.

Pictures #55, #56, & #57- Since the front end was sitting on its own weight, I decided to start working on the steering shaft. You might notice my pedal box sitting in the place where it will eventually be mounted. I have some bearings ordered to permanently mount the shaft. It's currently just floating in the position that I liked. I may try to develop a way to be able to adjust the angle on the shaft, in case friends want to drive it. Not sure about that yet. 

Pictures #58 & #59- I began work on structural bracing. These are the only pictures I currently have, but I have made a little more progress. Once I'm in the garage again I will take more pictures.

Other Updates not based off of pictures:
- I am going to look at a possible donor motorcycle this weekend. I am bringing an envelope full of cash and hope to come home with a winner. The motorcycle is a 2001 Yamaha FZ1. Its basically the 1000cc version of the red bike seen in some of my photos. I've put a lot of thought into the "what-ifs" for this project, mainly what if my design doesn't work out? In that case, I'll at least have a motorcycle that I would enjoy riding.

-As I mentioned above, I am a Second Lieutenant in the U.S. Army Reserves. I was hoping for an easy year, but my command has scheduled multiple extra AND mandatory training sessions. This makes me feel like I have very limited free time to work on projects and hobbies. This explains why my progress and posts have slowed down. Also, I frequently have to travel for work, sometimes a week at a time and others just a couple of days. With some new models coming into production this year, I am traveling more than I'd like to. I've spent the past three summers away from home at various Army schools and trainings. I'm hoping this year I'll be at home, and can dive into the fun things I like to do. Like motorcycles, fishing, camping, building things, paintball, and various other fun activities. I grew up very close to Lake Erie, and my dad still has his boat... I am itching to take it out to the local islands.

-Man, I'm only 23 years old and after re-reading that last point, I think I'm starting to sound like an adult? This growing up thing is still weird for me, but I'm trying to figure it out.

-I started putting together a list of the costs and have come up with a total of  approximately $2100 spent, including tools and consumables. That's about $700 above my planned budget. Good thing the cost is being spread out over a few months, because I encountered multiple costs that I never expected.

[DaveJ98092]

Well Sir, I did not know you were in the Reserves. Thank you for serving this great nation. I am a Retired SSG E-6 Signal Corp. I got to be a Drill Sergeant for the "Signal Officer's Basic" course for two cycles and at the Directorate of Reserve Component at Ft Gordon GA. I was a Cable Dog for most of my military career and that let me get a "VERY WELL" paying job with GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER for 18 more years.

Many of my "Butter Bar's" became my Captains and Majors later in my career, Payback's a B I T C H.

[1983JZR3W]

Hi Dave, small world. I went to MP school at Fort Gordon, Ga in early 1967.