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Post by mtntech on Dec 24, 2016 0:00:42 GMT -5
Reverse trikes are simply hell on rear tires. .......when they are rear wheel drive......... |
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Post by Liteway on Dec 24, 2016 0:04:17 GMT -5
fair qualification.
Pretty much concludes this phase, Just going to screw the floor pan and body panels back on and get it over to the new house.
Won't have any time to mess with it for months, as I have to prepare my old house for sale and prepare the new one to better suit our needs.
Later.
12/31
Drove the trike 40 miles to my new home this afternoon.
Definitely some bump steer present as I can feel the sticks wiggle in my hands over bumps, something that could not be felt before. A bit more kickback too. Nothing that cannot be tuned out. There is no filter between the road and your hands, the sticks tell you exactly what is happening at the contact patches.
Ride is a little more bouncy. Maybe now, with greater unsprung weight, less psi is called for. Or maybe the shocks are not up to controlling the additional mass.
Some loss of traction is noticeable.
Major changes always seem to need refinement before full advantage can be realized.
It was fun anyway, great to get it back out on the highway after 6mos.
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Post by jim99 on Jan 4, 2017 23:04:52 GMT -5
I purchased a Yokohama S.Drive 195/40-17 from Tire rack for my trike. This tire was the widest tire I could fit in stock swing arm and on stock 17" Suzuki rim. I found the traction to be fantastic. This is the forth brand of tire that I have tried on two different trikes and found it to be the best gripping tire so far.
The downside is the tire only lasted about 9,000 miles. I fault my driving style for the short life, with 1300cc of Hayabusa power and 1,100 lbs curb weight I have not been kind to that tire. The two S.Drive tires on the front will last forever. Next spring when I return to WI I will need to replace the tire, sprockets and chain. The sprockets and chain have 20k on them.
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Post by Liteway on Jan 5, 2017 10:47:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip Jim. 9000 miles is better than I will get with the current Bridgestone and it is anything but sticky.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Jan 5, 2017 15:49:38 GMT -5
This is why I have thoughts of doing a front wheel drive reverse trike. With most of the weight over the two front tires grip will be much better. Just getting Subaru rear diff mounted upside down lubed good is the biggest challenge.
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2rike
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Post by 2rike on Jan 5, 2017 16:24:32 GMT -5
I keep getting 3 wheel drive Reverse Trike voices in my head, That would be so cool if it could be made to work in a light weight simple set up!!!
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Post by Liteway on Jan 5, 2017 22:49:23 GMT -5
I keep getting 3 wheel drive Reverse Trike voices in my head, That would be so cool if it could be made to work in a light weight simple set up!!! That would certainly solve the traction problem, but I was attracted to 3 wheelers in first place because of their light weight and simplicity, traits negated by all wheel drive. Front drive handling is not my thing and in weight and complexity it is somewhere between the other 2. If I can get a tire out back that bites, I'll be a happy camper. If a soft compound 195 doesn't do it for me, I'll look at converting to a CanAm Spyder 15x7" rim and a 235. Either way is much simpler and lighter than 2 or 3 wheel drive. And if that don't work (I have little doubt it will,at least at moderate power levels) might as well look into a lightweight Lotus 7 type 4 wheeler. Just my thoughts guys, others may differ. 2rike: I'm curious about your weight distribution, rear tire/rim, and traction satisfaction. |
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2rike
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Post by 2rike on Jan 6, 2017 15:29:19 GMT -5
The 2rike has a balance point when picked up off the floor with a chain hoist which is 50mm in front of the roll bar so in effect it is where your shoulder are.
The over all on the road weight is 360KGs and that is split 114Kgs on the front corners and 132 Kgs on the rear tyre
Tyre wise I use the same tyre front and back which are Toyo 205/40 ZR 17 Proxes Tr1-R 84W Front 17 PSI/ Rear 24 PSI Pressure
I have covered about 2000 miles so far since June when I got it on the road and there is no appreciable ware on the tyres even the rear I suppose my driving style is quite light on the tyres I like to feel the grip and apply the throttle progressively that way it sets off like a rocket because if you just floor it, it will sit there and spin!!!
Cornering again you can feel the grip and you can just turn it in and it flows round the corner and then it has a good self centering feel. on the straights it go in a straight line on its own Its all light and predictable I am really happy with how its turned out.
2rike
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Jan 7, 2017 12:56:16 GMT -5
The biggest issue of running a narrow and short tire is they wear quickly. You need to figure out how to FIRST get the tallest tire you can and SECONDLY widest. A custom swing arm may be needed. I have always fitted the tallest tire and then gear down to get the overall effected gear ratio right.
On my Suzuki 650 scooter the factory Bridgestone was a 160/60 HR 14 (21.55 Inch tall) in the rear. I ground down the casting flash from the foundry moulds of the swingarm so I could fit a 185/60 HR 14 (22.75 inch tall) Car tire, so I got both tall and wide. I can not spin this 185 tire even in the rain. And I have about 20,000 miles on it and it is about 60% tread life left, maybe another 15,000 before it becomes worthless in the rain. But the 165 motorcycle tire I was spinning all the time and got 5,000 miles on each one.
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Post by Liteway on Jan 7, 2017 17:39:02 GMT -5
Very unique design it appears the two steering handles move opposite directions in a fairly linear fashion with proportion to the wheel track. I'm sure it would take some getting used to when trying it for the first time, I could see why googd center return tracking is so important. Just thinking, had I used sticks to steer everything since time began till I was 55 and then used a wheel for the first time, would I have been able to stay out of the ditch? |
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Post by jim99 on Jan 10, 2017 11:44:01 GMT -5
The first Elio reverse trike was based off of a Metro front wheel drive unit. Small and lite as for front wheel drive.
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Post by Liteway on Jan 14, 2017 17:18:56 GMT -5
Indeed, if they will reach their announced target weight of 1300 lbs, it will be the lightest front driver I ever heard of, but it if arrives with air, pwr windows, and other goodies promised, its about as likely to reach that weight as its promised production date. First 2014, then 2015, then 2016. Not sure if they ever promised 2017 or just skipped to their latest date of 2018. Price target is now 7300. That's fantasy too.
By the specs, I expect it will reach production (if ever) at 1700 or 1800 lbs and so not reach 85mpg or anywhere close. 55hp. Not enough.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Jan 14, 2017 20:57:52 GMT -5
Indeed, if they will reach their announced target weight of 1300 lbs, it will be the lightest front driver I ever heard of, but it if arrives with air, pwr windows, and other goodies promised, its about as likely to reach that weight as its promised production date. First 2014, then 2015, then 2016. Not sure if they ever promised 2017 or just skipped to their latest date of 2018. Price target is now 7300. That's fantasy too. By the specs, I expect it will reach production (if ever) at 1700 or 1800 lbs and so not reach 85mpg or anywhere close. 55hp. Not enough. I have said this from the beginning of Eleo. I have three friends that have put the $1000 nonrefundable deposit down. |
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Post by Liteway on Feb 19, 2017 10:42:15 GMT -5
 Method of of checking toe, bump steer, ackerman. The 2 black lines are laid out parallel to the chassis. The silver line is a piece of aluminum bar attached to the face of the brake disk. The angular difference represents static toe. Ackerman effect is determined by comparing the angular difference at maximum steering lock left then right after adjusting toe to the desired angle. Bump steer is measured by moving the suspension through its range of travel while watching for a change in the angular difference. I had learned this before but forgotten; Bump steer is much more readily affected by relocation of the tie rod ends vertically as opposed to changing their length, though the length should be close to optimal also. If the angle of the tie rods are not correct in relation to the A arms, no amount of length changes will work to eliminate bump steer. I am no expert. If anybody sees misinformation here, by all means feel free to discus or correct. I found about a 2 degree difference in toe depending upon whether the suspension was at max rebound or compression. This was corrected to 0 by raising the outboard tie rod ends 7.5 mm. Don't know how much this will improve stability. I have other work to do (Rear brake, thicker front susp. push rods, body work) before I can get it back on the road. |
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Feb 19, 2017 14:39:58 GMT -5
Nice shoes too.
Ackerman angle is a tough nut to crack. Using over the counter car parts you have to get the wheel base and track close to what the donor car was.
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Post by Liteway on Feb 19, 2017 14:56:06 GMT -5
That's right. The Mustang II, the Can Am Spyder and most production spindles have cast in steering arms that limit achieving optimal Ackerman angles except by moving the steering forward or back, which may not work out with other design parameters. This is why I cut off the stock steering arms and bolted on ones that worked better for me. The stock ones were too high, too long and angled incorrectly, otherwise they were just right.ha. As compared to the Spyder, my trike has a longer wheelbase, wider track and an odd steering arrangement. It would have been strange if the uprights worked well without modification. Come to think, the Spyder steering is a bit odd too, but in a different way.  |
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Post by Liteway on Mar 13, 2017 12:24:11 GMT -5
Having carburetor problems probably due to the prolonged period the trike was idle while the new front end was provisioned. I have had them off three times cleaning, installing kits. Still will not idle below 3000 rpm without full choke. I was already thinking to up grade the engine.
First choice was an fz09 donor, but the type is too recent and a running example cannot be found (so far) for less than 55 hundred. Plenty of wrecks available in on line actions, but they require dealer license.
My second choice for the appropriate power and weight is a honda 919 nighthawk. Not interested in another high strung crotch rocket motor that does not come alive below 6000. Need more low end launching grunt and more sensible gear ratio spreads than a full on track bike. Bringing along a ram air system can be problematic also.
1. Looking for between 100 and 125hp at the rear wheel. 100 is just enough, at my weight/weight distribution any more that 125 will be wasted in tire smoke without switching to a wider rim than is available
with most bikes. I am assuming (oh oh) that I can get a 205 section tire to work ok on a 5.5 in wide rim
2. Not much heavier than 150 lb motor trans I have now.
3. >60 ft lbs of torque available below 6000rpm.
4. Less than 12k miles of prior use.
Under consideration in order of preference.
rim width approx rear wheel hp
Yamaha FZ 09 5.5 105
Honda 919 Nighthawk (Hornet) 5.5 100
Kawasaki Z1000 6.0 120
Triumph Speed Triple 1000 6.0 120
Yamaha FZ1 5.5 125
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joe
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Post by joe on Mar 15, 2017 10:54:57 GMT -5
I seen a great motor for your project 115hp with reverse+ on Copart, it the newer can am 3 cylinder vortex. Since you used some of the can am front end components, you might want to consider their engine /trans package. With multi valve, throttle body fuel injection, no more carburetor issues. The 2 cylinder vortex is simular at 106hp and 77 ftlbs of torque. You can buy from Copart without a dealers license for a service fee, haven't bought from them personally, but have seen many great deals on there website, good luck!
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Post by Liteway on Mar 15, 2017 12:12:56 GMT -5
I seen a great motor for your project 115hp with reverse+ on Copart, it the newer can am 3 cylinder vortex. Since you used some of the can am front end components, you might want to consider their engine /trans package. With multi valve, throttle body fuel injection, no more carburetor issues. The 2 cylinder vortex is simular at 106hp and 77 ftlbs of torque. You can buy from Copart without a dealers license for a service fee, haven't bought from them personally, but have seen many great deals on there website, good luck! It's not a bad idea. The wide rear wheel and reverse would be great advantages. Can you give me a link to copart info on that specific engine? Not really the type of engine I'm interested in though, as my goals are to keep the trike as light, agile and quick as possible. Considering the engine's size (1300 cc plus), the output (115 at the crank, more like 100-105 at the rear wheel) is not impressive, and about the same as the 850 cc Yamaha FZ09 which am guessing to be not much more than half the weight of the Spyder's engine. Of course the Spyder engine will have bags more torque, but I really don't need that in a trike that is a least 250/300lbs lighter. If I were making a side by side that was in the same weight class as the Spyder, I would look at it more seriously, but its really a motor made for cruising rather than sport so not my mission which is more auto cross and track day as opposed to taking the wife or grand kids on jaunts. I am wary of purchasing any engine not in a running vehicle that has all the drive line parts, computers, wiring, intake and exhaust parts long with it. I was not aware copart sells to non-dealers for an extra fee. That is also good info. Thanks. |
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Mar 15, 2017 12:47:14 GMT -5
In most states, Copart will sell salvage title items to the public. To bid on clear titled items you can get a Buyers Agent to bid for a fee.
Copart has a variable Buyer's fee that at the lower cost items is a bit high at about 14%. Then they have a gate fee, an Internet fee and if your state has sales tax that too. A $625 bid can end up at $950 or more after all fees are added. This is true for all auctions, not just Copart.
As a basic member you have a top bid of $1000. But you can buy up, with a refundable fee to raise the top bid.
I have bought three vehicles from Copart. I did win the bid on another, a 2006 Subaru Forester XT but the seller (All State Insurance) pulled it after I won and demanded more, another $750. At the time they did not have a "Reserve" price but Copart had a notice in the rules that a seller could refuse the bid for any reason. I filed a complaint and now they have a "Reserve" price on some items.
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