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Post by martinslyon on Sept 1, 2012 21:23:37 GMT -5
The hot motor is going to be very dangerous to your groin area, also the EMFs will hurt you. That motor is too heavy and requires a huge and heavy battery pack. You can use a DC brushless motor that weighs less than 100Lbs. kellycontroller.com/mars-0913etek-comparablepmsmbldc-motor-p-874.htmlYou also need to lengthen the chassis in front of the footboard for battery storage. This secret in a small reverse trike EV is to build it ultralight but super-strong. That is why I am using Alulight aluminum foam sandwich panel. Another secret is to layout your propulsion drive system drawn on the garage floor in chalk and sit down on the floor and see how it fits. Regards, Giovanni Thanks for all your feedback Giovanni, its best if you build yours and I build mine, after all what good is it if we are all the same. Very best regards Martin Hey Giovanni, just as a matter of interest what is your experience with building or racing high performance front wheel drive vehicles. I'm interested because of your entrenched view regarding the value of limiting the efficiency of independant suspension by constraining movement and overcoming handling problems with anti roll bars. I know that it is the accepted best practice but the trend to use stiffer and stiffer anti roll bars has always seemed to be a workaround to me. My ultimate objective is to develop my trike prototype and optimise handling with a leaning solution. Regards Martin |
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Post by Giovanni LiCalsi on Sept 2, 2012 21:44:54 GMT -5
I am a mechanical engineering consultant to an electric car company and have chassis engineering knowledge.
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Post by martinslyon on Sept 3, 2012 15:21:43 GMT -5
I am a mechanical engineering consultant to an electric car company and have chassis engineering knowledge. Thats cool Giovanni, but no experience of building or racing high performance front wheel drive vehicles? I just took a quick look at your postings since announcing your reverse trike project in 2009, I'm really jealous at some of the components you have collected - real class! However I couldn't find any drawings or photos of your project, how is that going? I would be really keen to see how a pro manages a project like this, I'm always grateful for inspiration and opportunities to learn from an expert. It would be great if you could post a few images. Best regrds Martin |
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Post by Giovanni LiCalsi on Sept 5, 2012 21:42:56 GMT -5
Hi Martin,
Thank for your compliments.
I am still in the design stage. I have been so busy designing everyone else's machines that I haven't had the time for my own build.
I hope to get started next spring.
I have decided to not use my new FS800 BMW single-sided swingarm . It is for sale for a very low price. It is super light but not as light as the BST carbon fiber Ducati 1098 single-sided swingarm! Good thing that I waited for this. It should be on sale this year.
If you would like to build your chassis in aluminum foam sandwich panel, I can give you the Lotus/Ergot aluminum epoxy rivet fabrication instruction PDF. It is very simple to build a monocoque chassis with this technique. The panels can be CNC router or water-jet cut. The surfaces to be epoxy bonded are anodized or acid washed then bonded with 2-part 3-M epoxy and screw rivetted. The rivets are for shear strength. You can also use a combination of welding on the tubing extrusions. Lotus motors and Alcoa Aluminum Co. developed this for easy one-off chassis builds that employ low-tech tools and fabrication. The aluminum foam sandwich panel chassis has 50% more torsional rigidity than the aluminum sheet Lotus chassis and is the same weight. The lotus chassis is around 160Lbs.
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Post by captainamerica on Jan 1, 2013 2:01:59 GMT -5
This is my first time seeing the build thread in the EVs on here, any new accomplishments in the last 3 months Martin?
-Andrew
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Post by martinslyon on Feb 6, 2013 13:42:29 GMT -5
This is my first time seeing the build thread in the EVs on here, any new accomplishments in the last 3 months Martin? -Andrew Hello Andrew, sorry I have only just seen your note, I was made redundant from my job in the UK and am now working in Saudi Arabia, which has upset my plans (just a bit) regarding my main project. However............ I bought a Van Diemen Formula Junior chassis and front suspension and I have ordered an Enertrac twin hub motor which will be fitted in a custom made swing arm so that I can get something up and running in my limited spare time and teach myself what I need to know about running an electric vehicle. I will post some photos soon. I am in awe of the design work, CAD drawing and engineering/build quality I have just seen on your site!! |
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Post by martinslyon on Feb 6, 2013 13:45:03 GMT -5
Hi Martin, Thank for your compliments. I am still in the design stage. I have been so busy designing everyone else's machines that I haven't had the time for my own build. I hope to get started next spring. I have decided to not use my new FS800 BMW single-sided swingarm . It is for sale for a very low price. It is super light but not as light as the BST carbon fiber Ducati 1098 single-sided swingarm! Good thing that I waited for this. It should be on sale this year. If you would like to build your chassis in aluminum foam sandwich panel, I can give you the Lotus/Ergot aluminum epoxy rivet fabrication instruction PDF. It is very simple to build a monocoque chassis with this technique. The panels can be CNC router or water-jet cut. The surfaces to be epoxy bonded are anodized or acid washed then bonded with 2-part 3-M epoxy and screw rivetted. The rivets are for shear strength. You can also use a combination of welding on the tubing extrusions. Lotus motors and Alcoa Aluminum Co. developed this for easy one-off chassis builds that employ low-tech tools and fabrication. The aluminum foam sandwich panel chassis has 50% more torsional rigidity than the aluminum sheet Lotus chassis and is the same weight. The lotus chassis is around 160Lbs. Hi Sunworksco, sorry I am so long getting back to you, see note below for explanation/excuse I would be grateful for a copy of the pdf - thank you and regrds Martin |
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Post by Giovanni LiCalsi on Mar 4, 2013 20:24:50 GMT -5
Since Alulight.com aluminum foam panels are no longer available, I am going to use Inrekor panels. Check out this video on YouTube: youtu.be/7QBsA3UX69o |
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Post by martinslyon on May 25, 2015 15:03:29 GMT -5
Looks compact, should be agile.
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dain
Junior Member
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Post by dain on Nov 1, 2015 20:45:24 GMT -5
Your front suspension is a masterpiece - I would definitely recommend running an FEA on it if you haven't yet - as forces are often multipied several times especially with the shallow angle of your pushrods. We experimented with something very similar on an SAE Mini Baja and it broke every couple minutes...lol.. ended up bolting shocks straight to the A-arm anyway! Your vehicle design is slick though, very cool!
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Post by Liteway on Nov 1, 2015 23:39:20 GMT -5
Looks unworkable to me. Would like to hear from the thread starter on how it actually worked out. As we haven't been updated in some time, I suspect the worst.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Nov 2, 2015 1:32:06 GMT -5
Indycycle has this type front suspension. I can NOT get my head around it but....
No build news from Martin since Feb 2013 and just 1 note earlier this year.
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Post by Liteway on Nov 2, 2015 9:34:03 GMT -5
Indycycle has this type front suspension. I can NOT get my head around it but.... No build news from Martin since Feb 2013 and just 1 note earlier this year. So it does work? Wish somebody would give us a layman's explanation of how. Still skeptical. Must be a drawback or its advantages of losing the weight of one of the front coilovers and zero roll would be quickly copied by racers. Patents maybe? |
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dain
Junior Member
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Post by dain on Nov 2, 2015 9:59:32 GMT -5
The way it appears he has it setup is that there is no way to control the body roll with respect to the front suspension. The idea is to act as an antiroll-bar, but even moreso as there is no flex in this so it creates a perfectly rigid roll bar (if the pivot point is fixed, which it doesn't appear to be... ) An Indycycle uses a little swingarm that both pushrods connect to that cannot pivot. The angles of the rods are steeper too which lessen the forces incurred by the setup. It's a great concept for making a suspension with zero roll, but to have a fighting chance the pushrods need to be mounted to the lower control arm and the pivot needs to be fixed.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Nov 2, 2015 10:36:16 GMT -5
The way it appears he has it setup is that there is no way to control the body roll with respect to the front suspension. The idea is to act as an antiroll-bar, but even moreso as there is no flex in this so it creates a perfectly rigid roll bar (if the pivot point is fixed, which it doesn't appear to be... ) An Indycycle uses a little swingarm that both pushrods connect to that cannot pivot. The angles of the rods are steeper too which lessen the forces incurred by the setup. It's a great concept for making a suspension with zero roll, but to have a fighting chance the pushrods need to be mounted to the lower control arm and the pivot needs to be fixed. If the pivot point between both strut rods from the lower control arms is fixed, I think you'd get some drop or lift on the wheel that is opposite of the wheel in shock/rebound. Like I said, I can't get my head around it yet.  |
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dain
Junior Member
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Post by dain on Nov 2, 2015 11:46:04 GMT -5
Yeah - that pivot point shouldn't be there. The design of it, if 1 tires moves up - the other does equally. That pivoting "L bracket" moves up and down about another axis that pushes on the shock. It will corner super flat, but now allow for any benefits gained by using an independent suspension such as smoothing the ride out over unequal terrain, you will feel everything from both sides. The only benefit I can actually see is a little bit of weight reduction only using 1 shock, but by the time you get all the other stuff messed with it's probably the same mass. I also don't like how the forces are transmitted through so much frame as well... lots of points for failure!
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