Spartan Trike Project

[Liteway]

Hi Captain. Looks like you are not so far off from road test time. Bet that will be a hoot. Couple of concerns from your latest pics. As always, thanks for posting.

Lower link geometry in the rear suspension appears a bit off. Link angle looks as I would expect it to near full compression, not lightly loaded. See what I mean at www.freepatentsonline.com/6823958.html.

Are you planning on any motor mounts up and forward? With entire engine's weight cantilevered forward off the rear mounts, won't that put a lot of stress on them?

[captainamerica]

T-threat, I did notice the swing arm problem a few days ago when I jacked up the chassis and realized that the rear wheel came off the ground almost immediately, telling me the suspension was at max length at static conditions. I forgot to take a picture of my fix which was to shorten the linkage from the bell crank to the swing arm. I have the system modeled in CAD of course so I just sat there with the shock at center point and played with linkage lengths to get the wheel where I want it to be when the shock is centered allowing 2.5" up and down. At some point I will need to change the static spring force I think to get the back end where it should be.

As for the engine, as soon as I come up with a good way to add mounts at the top of the engine I will. Its been a problem in the back of my mind for quite some time now.

In other news the chain is now on with a removable link in case I need to change something. Also started wiring the engine so I can figure out where all my electronics need to be.

[etard]

This is an awesome project, thanks for posting the detailed pics and the SW sketches for us to see.

I was thinking about the aero tubing being soo dang expensive, which got me thinking that you have a lathe, which you could make a roller mandrel much like the tubing bender that uses three mandrels to incrementally bend the tubing by rolling it back and forth. Why not make four roller mandrels in the shape of the aero tubing and heat the tubing and crush it between the rollers incrementally into shape? You might be able to get by with just 2 but 4 would work better I think. Of course the time and effort might not be worth it, or cost effective, but if you see the need continually for this tubing it could work out to pay for itself eventually.

Keep up the good work, very inspirational stuff here.

Also, you may have already posted it, but is there a file of the Solidworks sketch somewhere?

[etard]

Ok, on a quick search to see if anybody had done this yet, I came up with these guys for a tubing source:

www.stockcarsteel.com/4130-chrome-moly/4130-chrome-moly-streamline-tube

[captainamerica]

Well yes, I noted that I can find 4130 out there, this is slightly cheaper at $12/ft, but unless I get 1020 or something non alloy then I have to deal with heat treating and overall it just adds expense, right now I am building with round 1020 DOM tube at $4/ft. The point is to be cheap but still end up with something cool. Thanks for the search help though, its a cheaper option.

[DaveJ98092]

I have seen a shop up here that builds chassis and they took Moly tubeing, slit it down the lenght, bent it "Aero shape" in a levered die and then Tig'ed up the slit. The levered die was just two steel blocks with the shape ground in. They put the slit tube in the die, slit towards the back and with a thin sheet of steel in the slit to keep it from buckeling. They used a saws-all to cut the slit. Lots of work for 1 project. They were doing many chassis.

[etard]

I don't know why you would want aero tubing on this build anyway, you got those huge ass tires on the front and you are using small diameter tubing anyway, the aerodynamic advantage will be minimal at best. It would look cool to be sure though. Oval tubing might be the best compromise, IMHO.

[DaveJ98092]

Nov 19, 2013 15:03:19 GMT -5 etard said:

I don't know why you would want aero tubing on this build anyway<<<SNIP>>>. It would look cool to be sure though. Oval tubing might be the best compromise, IMHO.

Aero tubing does work, at 310 MPH. The Chassis builder I went to builds NHRA citified chassis. Any tube that is in the wind is airfoil shaped for downforce, no lift. At 120 MPH, I agree with "etard" that it would only work for the COOL factor.

[captainamerica]

I agree with the comment, its more of a structural/looks thing. I don't care about the aero to much for my car if you all hadn't noticed, I am going for an overall look which I think oval tubing would help with. However I disagree with the minimal advantage, I have coworkers who do wind tunnel testing, and we discussed this very subject in regards to formula ford 1600 race cars and based on his testing he said that aero tubing in open air (no fenders) was worth 3-4 mph on ~120mph straights, enough to pass people and make it not really an option to go with round and be cheap. Different application but the point is valid.

[Liteway]

You could bend up some airfoil shaped slipcovers out of .03 or.04 aluminum sheet on a 40 dollar Harbor freight bender. Rivit the seams on the underside directly to the dom. If you want to go all out you could take the airfoil all the way across the arm and effectively eliminate half the frontal area. Buff them out or spray them with a titanium colored paint and that would really look trick and be functional. I would have done this on mine but my shocks do not work through rockers like yours, so it was not going to look clean regardless. If done this way you can hold off till much later while putting your time to better use getting the major mechanics sorted to make the trike roadworthy.

[captainamerica]

November - December

I haven't posted in awhile but that doesn't mean things aren't moving forward. Tested out the gas tank, my welds seeped on the vent ports and the fuel pump flange, so the tank got dried out, washed and dehydrated for precaution and welded over. The new welds hold much better, no leaks, I used a lot higher power settings on the welder to make sure that the new metal mixed fully. Rewired the battery through my master switch which can be seen to the left of the engine just over the drivers shoulder, the battery is going up front in the nose to get the CG forward and lower. I bit the bullet on wiring the handle bar switches, from the bike into the console, and cut the harness on the handle bar side down stream of the last connector to make my life easier. After some blown fuses (because all the switches were on the first time I turned the key, and the rear turn blinkers have a bad ground) and some extra care laying out of wires so that they didn't contact each other during testing I poured fuel into the tank, made all the last minutes checks and it started up on the first try. Feels good to finally be over that hump, now its time for the final push to get this thing on the road.  The radiator still needs to be modified, so there is currently no coolant in the engine so I will not being doing any engine checkouts until that happens.  The first test will be idle temperature, hopefully the fan radiator combo I came up with will do the job.

[etard]

Good to see progress, I am rooting for you to complete this baby before I start mine. I was wondering what size tubing you are using and what thickness. I have a quad frame that I will split for the front end part and just attach to a motorcycle rear end. I need to figure out what size tubing I should use to connect the two parts.

[etard]

Good to see progress, I am rooting for you to complete this baby before I start mine. I was wondering what size tubing you are using and what thickness. I have a quad frame that I will split for the front end part and just attach to a motorcycle rear end. I need to figure out what size tubing I should use to connect the two parts.

[stretchmobileski]

Dec 12, 2013 0:03:16 GMT -5 TheJoker said:

I didn't want to cut up my harness either, I found a solution that may be of help to you. All the wires from the hand controls, instrument cluster, lights, etc. Eventually find their way into the main harness where they meet with a connector. Mine had 2,3,6, and 9 pin connectors. I found a company online that sells both the male and female factory connectors. For my project, I just needed to extend the harness so I ordered an extra male and female for each. Now I can just unplug the connection at the harness and make an extension the correct length that has the male on one end and female on the other. Once you do this you can relocate the lights, instruments or whatever, and plug it into the extension. Makes a clean harness and no crimp connectors. If you weren't using the factory components, you could make the connection at the new switch, light, or whatever then connect the other end into the main harness with a factory connector. Same result, clean harness and no crimp connectors.

Just a thought.

What was the company that you sourced the connectors from?

[captainamerica]

etard,

I would suggest not using a quad frame cut in half, it would probably just be cleaner and easier (and safer) to just copy the mount points in a one off chassis similar to the rear enhttp://reversetrike.proboards.com/post/3099/edit#d of my trike where I measured the bike. Regardless, the main structure around the driver has 1.5" tubes, top and bottom with 1.25" and 1" supports, the roll hoops are 1.25" as are the engine structure bars. The rear structure where the ecu is and the gas tank is all 1"

I would go big or go home, I tend to oversize my tubing. 1.25"x.095" would be a minimum.

Joker,

Its hard to tell but I ended up sniping the harnesses on the handle bars (yellow and black connectors in picture 1) leaving enough room to add new connectors if I sell it. I wanted the wiring diagram to match the trike, and the wires change color at the connector so I just sniped them and got on with it. I plan to solder all the connections once the lengths are know, all that crap in the photo was just to verify I could replicate the bike and it caused quite a few blown fuses when the joints touched each other accidentally.

Honestly I didn't think that replacement connectors were available so I just went with what I had, good to know for the future though.

Anyone know the repercussions of removing the coolant bypass line at the thermostat? There is this extra 1/4" line that runs from the thermostat elbow to the radiator, parallel to the engine to radiator line. It can be seen sitting just on top of blue silicon tubing in the third and fourth pictures with the blue scotch tape on the end.

[captainamerica]

New fender design pictures, purchased trailer fenders of the appropriate size for $22 a piece. Purchasing all the brake line components in the next few days, lots of -3 AN lines. Also going to put the hydraulic clutch off the race motor I purchased onto this engine so I can use the master cylinder I have.

[mtntech]

What size heim joint are you using to connect the front lower control arm to the upright?

[captainamerica]

The lower control arm rod ends are made by FK and are 1/2" in size. All the others are the same. The push rods and steering tie rods are 3/8" in size

[mtntech]

I wouldn't trust a 1/2" rod end in that position.

[darrel]

Are rod ends ever acceptable in this application? If so, how is the proper size calculated? Shear load Rating?