Steering-rack and pinion

[TomyJ]

I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS THREAD ABOUT CENTER STEERING, NOT SIDE BY SIDE SITTING.
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Stiletto Fast Ratio Small Box Rack and Pinion , $344.00, ouch!
The ultra fast action of this rack-n-pinion is designed for small oval track or mini baja applications. Precision machined from high strength steel and billet aluminum. Close tolerance manufacturing processes have been incorporated in these units, resulting in a very smooth action, with near zero backlash.



For rear steer applications (steering arm relative to steering axis), mount in the position as shown. This unit may also be mounted inverted, for front steer applications.

Considered to be one of the finest rack-n-pinions on the market, proudly made in the USA.

7/8 Total Pinion Rotation

4-1/2 in. Total Rack Travel

11-1/4 in. Length

5/8-36 Splined Coupler (Included)

2.74 lbs.Can we/I have some input on steering for single seat, I am looking at my parts frame for dimensions BUT the go-cart style? has me worried at maybe 60 MPH? I have read here about slop in off road centered racks which I do not want so what is everyone's feelings or trials. This is DansPerformanceParts.com 8" Another Dan's. This one by Stiletto, I want motorcycle 1-1 steer and no slop... possible? PLEASE ADD YOUR INPUT...

 

[Liteway]

Don't know about the top and bottom units, but the center one looks like the very one I ordered from Dan's 12 or 13 years ago.

The steering could be turned about 3/4s or an inch back and forth with no apparent change in wheel angles. Add to that the unit was too short in my application causing lots of bump steer. These two things together made for a frightful experience at any speed if the road was the least bit uneven.

If I remember right, I gave about 90 dollars for it. After I converted to side stick steering, it lay about the shop for a couple of years before going into the garbage, though I did keep the low quality rod ends.

I considered the stiletto but at the time, I couldn't get any feedback from users. Anyway, it was too short also.

[TomyJ]

Sept 25, 2018 17:25:17 GMT -5 Liteway said:

Don't know about the top and bottom units, but the center one looks like the very one I ordered from Dan's 12 or 13 years ago.

The steering could be turned about 3/4s or an inch back and forth with no apparent change in wheel angles. Add to that the unit was too short in my application causing lots of bump steer. These two things together made for a frightful experience at any speed if the road was the least bit uneven.

If I remember right, I gave about 90 dollars for it. After I converted to side stick steering, it lay about the shop for a couple of years before going into the garbage, though I did keep the low quality rod ends.

I considered the stiletto but at the time, I couldn't get any feedback from users. Anyway, it was too short also.

And there is no way for correcting the backlash? shims?

[DaveJ98092]

When I took apart a "Buggy" Off road rack a few years ago there were no way to adjust the pinion depth or shim the rack's board to tighten up the lash. Piss poor machining.

If you are looking for a wider front steer www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3600222&cc=1135156&jsn=426

Or a wider rear steer www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5745354&cc=1094138&jsn=607

You can cut the inner tie rods down and rethread them to make them narrower too.

But looking at the pictures of those racks, the pinion looks to be under the rack on both. They both have thick grease inside so I am guessing you could mount it upside down to reverse the steer.

And they will not be 1:1 ratio so they will not work if you want real fast steering.

[TomyJ]

Back to Dave's comment ( I agree with) about my go-cart style (Chinese Quad) steering being considered "Off Road" and will the (California) DMV accept it? Now comes the center steer rack and pinion, "Off Road" ? OR am I putting to much into this? Again I want 1-1 steering like a motorcycle... What else is out there besides racks and go cart style, please tell me I am missing something? I will look more at Can Am Spyder and something I remember from the 60's era Kustom cars...

[srx660]

This is a very deep subject with not a lot of information about steering units. While most quick ratio units are of the recirculating ball type boxes there are a few rack & pinion type. Almost all quick steering units are also hydraulic assisted. This means you need oil pump/tank with them, usually powered by a belt to the engine. there are a few manual rack & pinions like the mustand, subaru, a few toyota's and nissans. The quick ratio units are usually around 16 to 1 with some down to 14 to 1 ratios. Standard ratio for auto's is 18 to 1. Most standard ratios have a lock to lock of 3.2-3.5 turns. Even the quick ratios will still have a lock to lock of 2.6 to 2.8 turns. There are a few R&P's with a lock to lock of 1.7 turns, but good luck finding them.

Here's some good information sites:

www.carandtruckpartrubexit.info/gto/quick-ratio.html

www.wickedbilt.com/products/all-products/rackzilla-rack-pinion

www.gearheadworld.com/store/Steering-and-Suspension-C8.aspx

Meanwhile i would look into the Polaris and Can-am R&P units as they are very suitable(if expensive)as they are already street certified. One thing i don't like about the polaris large ute's is the steering that looks almost like gokart style steering.



Since i have decided to use handlebars instead of a steering wheel my choices are limited. what i am planning on is using 2 large chain sprockets(bicycle type chain) with handlebars attached to one sprocket and the other sprocket mounted in front of the engine with a shaft going down to a automotive type pitman arm. Heavy steering at slow speeds? probably but not enough to cause me to go to the trouble of putting on Power steering(it is a possible option).



srx660

[Liteway]

I see where you have duplicated this post on the new forum, SRX.
Good idea to get some content going over there.

I wonder why the reluctance among users of this forum to register with the new forum that you and Dave have gone to the trouble to set up.
That forum gives us a fresh start with fewer data restraints and more control for our Admin staff.

I would urge our members to sign up, regularly check in and post content there.

reversetrikes.freeforums.net/

[DaveJ98092]

TomyJ Look closely at Ernie's steering build. Look through his full build for more pictures of this design.

Ernie has a chain drive steering system. I have not studied it well, YET! He is using a stock 20:1 ratio VW Bug steering box but with a chain to get about 12 inches off of center to reach the box.

By changing the chains gears you can make a quicker or slower gear for the VW's 20:1 ratio. He went over drive to make it quicker. But I bet the chain does add a bit of "Notchieness" to the rotation. This may work for a Pinto/Mustang II rack.

Jul 2, 2016 15:07:28 GMT -5 ernie said:

The next step in the process after the installation of the front axle , spindle, ball joints, tire/rims and brakes is the steering device. The first photo shows a motorcycle rear sprocket mounted/welded onto the end of the steering column. Photo two
shows the chain between the large sprocket and a small motorcycle drive sprocket mounted to the steering box of the VW axle. Also you will see the use of two idle adjusters, red, that allow for fine adjustment of the steering device. The third photo shows the steering device in reference to the axle and frame. Axle rebuild cost: $350. Tires 2 @ : $120. Steering parts: $25.

[TomyJ]

Sept 29, 2018 6:38:18 GMT -5 srx660 said:

<<<SNIP>>>


Since i have decided to use handlebars instead of a steering wheel my choices are limited. what i am planning on is using 2 large chain sprockets(bicycle type chain) with handlebars attached to one sprocket and the other sprocket mounted in front of the engine with a shaft going down to a automotive type pitman arm. Heavy steering at slow speeds? probably but not enough to cause me to go to the trouble of putting on Power steering(it is a possible option).
<<<SNIP>>>

srx660 James, Go cart chain is stronger and you have a better selection of sprocket sizes.

[DaveJ98092]

I think for SRX660's use a sealed "O" ring 428 or 520 Motorcycle chain and sprocket setup like Ernies will work. The sealed O rings will not need lube very often and the amount of revolutions in 1 year will be about a day or two's worth of riding a motorcycle.

Go with like a 16 tooth sprocket on the steering shaft and a 17 tooth on the pitman arm shaft for a slight underdrive for easier steering.

The more teeth on the sprockets the smoother the rotation feel. So a 30 tooth will spin smoother and easier than 16 teeth.

At the very minimum you will need nylon bushings on each end of the shafts but double sealed roller bearings will be best.

[TomyJ]

I found this in search image's, Hot Rod style. Can also use another chain setup in the front of the engine?

[DaveJ98092]

I like the system above but I'd maybe put a bearing on both sides of the gears and a plate on both sides for double shear strength for a heavy car.

That Caddy engine was not light.

[srx660]

Thanks Davej, and tomyJ, for those ideas. It does make me think i could use something completely different than what i was thinking. I love the reply's from other people on different ways to fix the problems building a trike.

[joe]

Like the idea of a double chain as pictured, redundancy on a critical component like steering should be considered. A chain link break or slipped sprocket however unlikely could be catastrophic. Unlike an factory engineered design that is put thru a fatigue stress test home builders can only over design and create redundant components when possible.