My reverse trike build - srx660

[srx660]

But there is always some little thing that will get you. Like the welds i forgot to finish on a offroad go-kart. Think about getting stuck in the middle of nowhere with both front wheels laying in the dirt(spindles broke off frame). Oh, well, i'll always remember that one.

So now i want to build a street motorcycle trike with a 3 point front suspension, motor up front and a single powered wheel just behind the driver seat. Will it stand up to daily street driving? No, i'm not interested in how fast it is. I doubt i will ever long trip driving at 80 per. Just want a around town cruiser i can carry a bag of tools to fix someones faucet(handiman thing i do) Seen this design and quick redesign to fit what i want and maybe a much modified body style. Oh, yes, honda shadow 750 powered and belt driver rear wheel. Maybe a reverse gearbox as i found out that outboard lower units have bevel gears. My ultimate build and finally a full size one. The little ones i've been building for the experience are just too rough on this old body anymore( 69 yo this year).

SRX660

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1EpHLGs&index=10&list=PL1A232ED3E18BB447

This is what i want.



Taking measurements i find the seating way too small for my large body. so here's the 1st revision of many to come. I also liked having some space behind the seat to carry stuff i want to take with me(like tools, etc).



Now to figure out a steering system around the engine.

[fatherchuck53]

I'm with you on the simple trike. I understand people wanting outrages amounts of horsepower, I ran topfuel drag bikes in late 60's early 70's.
The Honda 750 you mentioned is a great chose. Plenty of power, torque to easily get you rolling, no need to shift every 20 feet, dependable as every. Not finicky on the tuning. My son put over 50,000 on his 2003 vt750 powered trike before it was shipped to Brazil to new owner. It would cruise all day at 80 with two up and gear. Topped out at 100+, could smoke the tire if needing to impress, got over 40 mpg easily and was relaxing to drive. I had mounted the engine to the right of center behind passenger seat and flipped rear wheel so sprocket was on right side.
I'm in the process of constructing another with the same basic setup. Only major changes planned this time I'm going with aVW beam axle widened and using a 2012 Honda VT750 spirit fuel injected engine.

[DaveJ98092]

Looks like a good start. So many good engine combos in shaft drive. I would look for a 1500cc Goldwing with ts electric reverse, good gears and lots of bottom end power. Belt drive from way up front to drive the rear may be a bit of a challenge.

FatherChuck, Back in 1987 I too rode a Nitro powered Harley 1000 Sportster but only up to 15% Nitro. Even using ARP head studs it was hard keeping a cylinder head from blowing off. I was still active duty Army and my commander found out about my after duty activities and made me stop. I could still drag race but not at the level of IHRA/NHRA licensed racing.

[fatherchuck53]

I was mostly running dual engine triumphs. 650's bored and stroked out to 800-850cc each. Never was a fan of the Harley drag bikes, just seemed to much problem back them.
I too like the gold wing engine chose but prefer the older 1100's, don't take up as much space to start with. Then redo the swingarm drive shaft to shorten it even more.

[fatherchuck53]

I had to give it up when I started doing engineering for Honda and they were still trying to sell the family imagine of bikes.

[DaveJ98092]

Drive shafts, even CV solid shafts can be cut and spliced with ease to fit what ever you need. We cut and spliced GM CV shafts from a frontwheel drive Olds Toronado 425 Ci V8/autotransaxel to put into the back of a Porsche 912 way back in the 70's when 912's were a throw-away VW powered car..... We just cut both GM and VW shafts about 3/4 inch too long and ground a V in the ends so they fit together, slipped a steel sleeve over the end of one, welded up the two V's and ground them down smooth and then slid the sleeve over the joint and welded it too. That Porsche would pull the front wheels off the ground.

So coming from a shaft drive engine up front with a short driveshaft to a Toyota pickup trucks center carrier bearing mounted by the swingarm's pivot point and then from that to the rear hub you will have a very stable driveshaft.

On the Nitro bikes.
We blew up a lot of Harley 883's back then. Lots of guys tried various ratios of Nitro, most went 20% Nitro/80% Methanol. Some would split the case, some would strip 1st gears teeth off. When I did my 1000cc I went conservative at less than 15% Nitro and 65% Methanol and 20% racing gasoline. I had a racing transmission "Blanket" between my body and the rear cylinder head just in case it popped real bad. I ran mid 9's to low 10's. Today that is SLOW. I raced at Jackson South Carolina (IHRA) and then at Seattle Int Raceway (NHRA).

[fatherchuck53]

Apologize for side tracking your post srx660. I think we've all made some both dangerous and humorous mistakes in our designs and constructions over the years.
I've done my share of doozies. If more people admitted to their screw ups more newbies wouldn't get discouraged by the little errors they make when starting out.
My best one was in the early 70's while working for a big name auto manufacturer which they probably like the fact I'm not naming. I designed the transmission for what today you call a hybrid car. 6 months of casting machining and welding we had the first prototype rolled out for testing. It showed lots of potential except it had one speed forward and 4 in reverse. And no easy way to correct it. Lots of different engineers had looked at those drawings and nobody caught it. I still had a job after that.
You should probably start a new category for mess ups. We could all use the inspiration and the laughter.

[DaveJ98092]

I have been guilty of tack welding up something and then taking it for a short run. But my luck held out. Plus I never went "Bonzi" on it. But we had a member on here that had just tack welded his frame and then took it out and got up to some high speeds during testing. He was lucky it did not fold up on him.

In this world, there is a fix for "STUPID". DEATH fixes major cases of stupid. Been close a few times.

[srx660]

Well, going tomorrow to get 80 feet of 1 1/2" and 1 1/4" Tubing (60 wall) to start on a frame. Was delayed by the county for 3 weeks to clean-up my backyard junkyard. We have a old lady that has decided she's going to clean up the neighborhood by calling the county on everyone. So i bought a container and rented a lot to store all my steel and collection of parts i thought i might need to build the trike. I kinda overdid it, but may get the trike done a bit sooner. I plan on having it driveable by September(Hoping anyway). Always wanted a vehicle painted with Kosmic Kandy Paint and maybe a little pearl thrown on top. Cant decide if i want blue or red. The red seems to stand out more, but i have always likes the Brilliant Blue Kosmic Has. Trying to keep as few bends in the frame as possible, but i did buy a tubing roller if i need one.

srx660

[isaiahcrem]

Can't wait to see some progress on this build SRX660, the design is very attractive!
Add me in as a vote for blue paint. Not because blue is my favorite color, but because I think it fits the design/styling well.

Isaiah

[srx660]

I have been working on a wood mockup of the trike i want to build. It is a lot more work than i thought it would be just to get to this point on the trike. I started with a 2x4 double frame9 foot 3 inches long, 18 inches wide at the rear bodywork and 14 inches wide in the front. The frame is 17 inches high rear tapering down to 12 inches front. All these measurement were taken from a side view picture of the trike and adding a 6 inch scale grid to the picture. I added 24 inch cycles wheels from a kawasaki 500 and honda 400 i had laying around. Used a steel rod thru holes drilled in the chassis for the front end and mounted the wheels on the rod. rear swing arm & wheel off a Kaw Vulcan 500 mounted similar in the rear. Made a dashboard, seat back( 2 of them), Radiator cover and rear brace over the tire. Put pegs where my feet would be and sat in the trike.

Well, this wont work for me. My knees are close to the top of the dashboard and in a cramped position, a pair of dragbars put my elbows vertically even below my shoulders so i did not have room to turn the handlebars without touching my gut quickly. So i needed a seat bottom stretch to fix it. I also drilled new holes for the footpegs 3 inches forward to lower my knees down to a reasonable position. Added 1x3 braced hood sides and a top cover to make the whole hood section removable from the bottom framework. I wanted a passenger seat behind the driver and that is the reason for the stretched rear bodywork. Looked good on paper but the real picture looks ugly to me. I have shortened the rear bodywork 6 inches already, lowered the height 3 inches and its still ugly. Starting over again So i may forget the rear seat and shorten it some more. I do have to be careful because i really did not want to build a custom rear swingarm. The grey square on the side picture shows where the swingarm pivot axle is. If i move the swingarm bolt forward 8 inches I can shorten the body to 8ft 4in and have a good sized gastank there.I was going to have the gastank under my seat and it was only 4 gallons in size there.

The 1x2 strips down the sides are where i need to widen the body. I measured the Honda motor length and width and found a problem in the frame width. I will be using 1.5 inch dom square tubing on the steel frame. Well, the top rail needs to be wider as the motor is 17 inches wide. Don't think 17 inch wide cases and 3 inch wide frames fits in a 18 inch wide body. So i am rounding out the top rails to 21 inches. When i get the body where i want it then i will do a Ed Roth plaster job to get the lines where i like them and make a fiberglass body. Then it will be chassis time.

I really can't envision a trike in my mind and then just build exactly like that. So i chose to build the wooden bike because i have a ton of plywood and wood 2x4's, etc. I don't have $100 in to this yet. but now i can see basically what it's gonna look like.

What have i learned so far? Compound 2 direction cuts are almost impossible to get right. You know, tapered in front to back and angled vertically. What a PITA. My best tool right now is my short stroke dewalt detail cutter. Cut a piece close and use the dewalt to fit it better. Much easier than making 5 same pieces and none fit right. Its gonna be interesting when i start cutting and welding the steel. Haven't done that in years.






srx660

[srx660]

Well , i was talking to my neighbor lady about my trike. Her thoughts on my wooden pre-build is that i'm building jetski motorcycle.
Who knew?

Oh, well
srx660

[srx660]

It started raining a 7am today and on/off raining all day, so nothing is getting done. Seems like it's raining every day now for weeks. building a body out of wood does cause some problems. Even just cutting the boards slightly off marked lines builds tolerances that are off after a while. I decided to shorten the rear upper body. Cutting 12 inches off the back has now thrown the levels out of whack. I'm going to try shimming things back to looking right, and if that doesn't do it, i'm going to start over with new wood and be a bit more careful. If i have to i may use the Ed Roth method which is using plaster of paris to level and keep the symmetry good. I know it's kinda backwards to build the body first, but i really want the trike to look a certain way in my mind. So, i will build the chassis into the body to get exactly what i want. The body will be split vertically lengthwise, supported by 2x2's and plywood body stations every 12 inches inside. One mistake i did not catch until most of the body was done is the tire sizes on the golfcart front axle used to move the body around are 2 different sizes. The difference between the 480x12 and the 530x12 tires is 1.6 inches. The basic frame is OK because i built it using Stands that made the ground clearance 6 inches front and rear. When the body got a bit too heavy to move around i put the wheels under it. I tried to keep a centerline plywood frame to build the body around, and cut both sides of all pieces of the upper body to be exactly the same. When most of the body was done i noticed the levels were off. Now corrections are needed before i will continue with body.

Meanwhile when i went to get the steel tubing for the frame, i was talked into using 90 wall dom tubing by a friend who builds his own circle track cars. So i saved a bit of money taking back the 60 wall moly tubing and trading for the 90 wall. They did screw me a little because i oiled the tubing to keep it from rusting too much. The damp air here in florida gets to everything. Oh well. I do like welding the 90 wall with my wire-feed welder, it's a bit slower so i get nice fills on the weld. The only problem is the cheap welder has a very short cycle of welding before i have to stop. Just have to deal with it, can't afford a better welder right now. Even with a good helmet my eyes can't take a long time welding anyway. Guess i'm getting too old so i get blind spots after a while and have to stop welding for a hour or two.

Good news is when it will finally quit raining for a day, i have found a miata complete front end still in the car that i can buy for $175 and i must remove it myself. fenders, hood front clip and wheels are already off so it should be easily removed. The guy said i could buy two 17 inch wheels that fit the miata for another $100. Taking my torch with me just in case. The Beetle front suspensions are few and far between and everyone i have looked at they want $700-1000 for them. Although a bit heavy the miata brakes and suspension parts are easier to get and somewhat stronger than the beetle stuff.

srx660

[srx660]

Well it's revision #2 time. The tail end looked way too long so i marked off 8-10-12 inch lines to see what a shorter rear body would look like. i liked the full 12 inch shorter lines so that where i cut it. By the way i didn't know plywood blades will cut swingarm's as well as wood and plywood. It does so i need a new saw blade now, cause i did dull the blade a bit, lol. By shortening the rear end 2 things happened, one is it is no longer going to have a passenger seat. Secondly it also shortens the body length to 8 feet. I had to take the rear upper body off and completely rework it to fit better. But now it looks too squarish and 'big butt' looking. I like the length of it but will take it apart again and try tapering the back down a inch or two so it will kinda match the front and not look so boxy.I also need to change the top of the front body to have a wider angle down to the engine sides. I don't really like the taper from the dash to the front of the body narrowing down like it is now. That's why i'm building in wood first, easy to change the shape as i go along.

When i finish the body i'll paint it and tuck it away in the garage and start on the steel chassis. I bought a 1 inch thick plywood panel to build a flat base to build the chassis on. I will level it and paint it in the garage. With the hurricane season upon us here in Fla i can't keep moving everything in and out of the garage to work on it. It's raining off and on every day now.

So, here's the new revision's.

i.imgsafe.org/90/90348113cb.jpeg

i.imgsafe.org/90/903450fb72.jpeg

i.imgsafe.org/90/9034375ede.jpeg

i.imgsafe.org/90/9033f6a035.jpeg

I have 10 or so different handlebars so i'm trying to see what fits the closest to what i want(need?). The rod sticking out below the seating is the swingarm bolt location. I might build a custom swingarm to shorten it and narrow it a bit. I would really like to taper the back of the chassis so it is just slightly wider than needed by the swing arm and tire. I am thinking i would like to use a matching wheels front and back and use 17 inch auto wheels with wider car tires.there is a low profile 17 tire that is only 24.5 inches tall i want to use.

I now have $4200 invested in this trike. The honda cost me $4000 a few years ago and i quit riding it after a 2000 miles. The drivers around here are too stupid to know how to drive, so to keep from getting killed i quit riding the bike. The rest is the little stuff like screws, small parts, and anything i need to get this thing going.

srx660

[srx660]

It looks like i will have to back off trying to build the steel chassis for a while. Trying to take the golfcart f-susp balljoint's apart so i could at least steer the trike, i pulled the ligament on my left shoulder. It has stopped me from doing any heavy lifting so i need for it to heal somewhat before doing any more heavy work. I wanted to buy a 4x8 12 gauge plate to make a level platform to start on the trike frame but now that will wait until i get some help to get it home and set it up. I am going to build new suspensions front and rear since i do not like anything i have found so far. I like Andrew's(captain america)front end style as it suits the width i want and it seems no one else comes close to this width suspension. Perhaps, when i am ready, i'll see if Andrew can do my front suspension for me.

I am stuck for a little while anyway since the wire feed welder i bought "used" does not seem to work. Owner said it works perfect but it doesn't and now he won't return my calls. I should have known since the price was very low. I'm gonna keep messing with it and see if i can get it working. When my shoulder gets better, i might have to buy a new welder, because i don't want to wait years to ride this trike. I'm giving myself a year to have it licensed and driving it on the street. At least i have the tubing roller and the square tube dies so i can bend the frame up like i want it to look. I need to buy a metal cutting chop saw since using my cutting torch makes very sloppy edges.

So i get to try using the freecad software to design the trike, so it feels like i'm doing something to get it done. I am in AWE of the people here that have designed and built their own suspension for their trikes. There is so much to learn about suspension design that i need the cad program to see if what i'm doing will work. I also downloaded the solid works student cad program and will try to figure it out too. I am now keeping track of every dollar spent and will be taking pic's of each step i take with the trike.

Keep on triking
srx660

[DaveJ98092]

Sucks to get injured in the middle of a project. Almost as bad as being injured at the beginning and having the wife say all the time, "You can't do that work anymore". GRRRRR!

What was that cheap welder?

[srx660]

Well another day, some shots from my doctor, and my shoulder feels good enough to try some minor revisions to the trike. This stage of the build is just my experimenting to see what can work and what looks good to me. I have a basic design in my heat and i am trying to build a body first to match this image. The problem is the execution. I do have to think about all the details and workarounds i need to do to make it work. The engine has a very small space to fit in the body. In fact i am trying to build a motor cycle trike to be the smallest it can possibly be And still fit a large motor and a reversing gearbox to the rear end. A funny thought is my method for the reverse gearbox will give me 5 reverse speeds along with the 5 forward speeds. The thought of driving fast in reverse gets kind of scary. But my way makes getting reverse on my trike simple if not inexpensive. The bevel outboard reverse lower units i have looked at are all in the $300-800 range for a 100 HP unit. Then i have to build a housing to fit in the chassis and work properly. It can be done, just not cheap. This is probably the only trike i will build so i don't mind if the cost is not too high for everyone to be able to build it. Under 10,000 is my goal here.

The new photo's show i have moved the handlebars inside the engine housing and the bars width, bend, and height is almost perfect.I am going t try bending up some dragbars with the same bends to mount up inside the front housing. I am thinking of attaching them to a chain type sprocket and have a long chain going to a smaller sprocket behind the radiator, running around and above the engine. Doing the steering this way is almost necessary since there is very little room between the engine and the body sides. I think i can get a sprocket ratio high enough so not much movement of the handlebars will give me a sharp wheel turning radius. Yes, i think turning the wheels while stopped will be pretty hard, but once moving it will be OK.

P.S - Anyone that thinks they have a better idea tell me your idea's here.

I have also pulled the bottom of the engine cover out at the bottom to better fit the engine. At the same time i still do not have the width necessary to fit in the engine. I am using the Kaw 500 engine in the background of one of the pic's to check engine fit as the crankcase is only 1 inch narrower than the honda engine. the honda shadow di'm using for a donor is still a running driveable bike until i am ready to install it in the chassis. By the way this whole top engine cover will tilt forward in front of the radiator for easy engine access. The seating has been shortened by 3 inches by resetting the engine cover back. I thought i would have to move the foot pegs forward a couple more inches so i drilled the holes, but i found that the middle set works better and i did not have to move them. This makes the handlebar reach exactly where i like it. So now the body length is 8 feet 5 inches. The tail section has been narrowed at the tail end to just fit over the tire I am changing the top if the section to look better by being slightly narrower and lower than the engine cover. I think it will look better this way( subject to my whim's at a later date).

AND the WHOOPS - well, i wanted to put the cycle wheels back on the trike, because it was easier to get it in and out of the garage than the golfcart front axle, so i took off the golfcart axle And attached the rod holding the wheels to the bottom frame rail with single screw electrical tubing clamps. A push on the front end bent them up quickly(see pic). So some double screw clamps replaced them (Pita while it's starting to rain).

OH, the flux welder is a Chicago Electric welder flux core 60-120 sold by harbor freight for $126.00 new. I paid &25 for the one i bought but it has a very short weld time before gets hot and trips out(the problem) . It still works, but i'm wanting a better welder already. A welder friend says it's the 20% duty cycle causing the problem. You just can't weld for more than 10 minutes.

So here the new pic's

[DaveJ98092]

I bought that model of Harborfrieght welder from a thrift store for $10. The core is aluminum wire and will get real hot compared to a copper wire core. Plus the cooling fan is CRAP. I replaced the 5 inch 12volt fan with a used 6 inch Spal fan and the duty cycle went up a lot before it craps out and I have to wait for it to cool down. I use it for just tack welding at times to save on my Co2/Argon gas. It does very bad long welds but for a tack it does OK.

I use a Lincoln SP155 220 volt 130 amp at 60% duty cycle and it works.

I always see good welders on Craigslist for around 1/2 to 1/3 the price of new. I almost picked up a 220V Hobart 230 Amp MIG ($1599 new) for $625 with a Co2/Argon bottle ($200)and a spool gun ($200). The seller allow me to test it on some scrap. I just did not have the $625 at the time and missed out...

[noahkatz]

Couple of things:

1. Is this a leaning trike as shown in one of the pic's?

If not, track looks way too narrow, will be tippy, and no roll bar apparently.

2. The simplest/lightest idea for reverse that I've seen is get a 12V winch, put a drive roller on it, and put the whole thing on a swinging arm that is pressed into contact with the rear wheel.

[DaveJ98092]

SRX will have to answer on #1. But I think it is a "Work Up" exercise to see if it is something he's wanting to do in final design.

On #2, Member Joe has his design of a 12 volt electric winch re-worked with a wheel and a swinging arm on his build thread.