New look for old trike.

[jim99]

WOW Very nice.

I vote for side marker light also. Maybe some LED strips. Low profile might help keep the clean lines of your build.

[mtntech]

Can you put the turn signals there?

[Liteway]

Yep. If you look on page 3 , you will see leds on the front quarter. These were single element type. I managed to use them as signal repeaters in the daytime and marker lights after dark. This was done by throwing a single, double pole, double throw switch on the dash which changed the circuit the lights were working from. I will just go back in with those. They will have to be mounted vertically to fit the space, so I'll try to mount them under a flush lens rather than on the surface. Another advantage to that is they can be mounted to the frame, not the alu. shell where they would have to be unhooked/unplugged each time the shell is removed.

That is also an advantage of the small led headlights. They are mounted to the frame, and the front shell can be lifted free of them without jacking with the wiring and I did not have to devise a solid mount on the thin aluminum.

It seems as though the hard way is usually the better way.

Took it out to "Cars and Coffee" in the city this morning. Attracted considerable attention.

[Liteway]

Sept 19, 2014 1:55:03 GMT -5 kolibri said:

I have problems with the straight line stability too. Over a speed of 70km/h it feels like driving more a boat then a car. I aks at the importer of bitubo shocks and he told me that the issue could be that not every shocks can be used in every position. It is not equal if the shock is in a laying or standing position. I noticed ( laying position like yours) that there is not a real damping it feels more than just the spring is working.If you want use a shock laying it needs a special piston to seperate oil. If you are shaking the shock and you can hear the oil, like I can, you should try other shocks before you change the hole thing once again.



Nice work looks realy good.

Ralf from Germany

Shocks failed slosh test.
In my limited ability to bench test them, I discovered they lose rebound dampening in the last inch of travel if inverted or laid flat. However, If I angle them at 22 degrees, as they are mounted to the trike, they seem to work as well as they do vertical.

But what if I hit a pothole at 60? Are they affected by acceleration as the fluid flows back and up? What if they get a little hot?
They could be a problem.

Also, they have neoprene bushings at the rocker end. Lots of sticktion here. Should be needle bearings used as the rocker end moves through a much tighter arc than it would if used conventionally and more rotational movement is required of the bushing. By greasing them, this was reduced and it helped stability noticeably. If I do decide to retain these shocks, proper bearings will have to be fitted.

Suspension alignment was checked front and rear and found to be okay. But, still have some other things to try before forking over big bucks for new shocks.

Stability problem does not appear aerodynamically related as I first thought that it might. Removing front body panels had no affect. I did note that if I left off just one of the small access panels, the cokpit buffeting problem went away. This points the way to a solution to that problem.

Update 10/10
After greasing the anti-roll bar bushings, Stability was again improved. I think 75 percent of my problem was in the increased friction of the additional pivot points of the new set-up. The other 25 percent was aero, because of a smaller front spoiler and fender deletion. Went for a ride yesterday evening and the trike is beginning to feel like its old self, stability wise. I think after the modified fenders are reattached, I'll be all the way back.

[DaveJ98092]

Oct 9, 2014 8:44:28 GMT -5 Liteway said:

<<<SNIP>>>

Stability problem does not appear aerodynamically related as I first thought that it might. Removing front body panels had no affect. I did note that if I left off just one of the small access panels, the cokpit buffeting problem went away. This points the way to a solution to that problem.

Hey, sometimes a little breeze thru the c0ckpit is needed, especially after having 5 alarm chili the night before.

On my Burgman 650 scooter I have a problem of back draft buffeting that pulls you forward and then releases. This causes fatigue and lots of noise, another fatigue factor is noise. By drilling two holes in the windshield and installing two Vetter snap vents (Still available new from Craig Vetter) I get much less buffeting and a bit less noise.

[Liteway]

Yeah Dave, I will need to do something like that.
I took it on a 100 mi round trip to Stroud this morning to attend an SCCA regional auto cross. Trike behaved okay at 65 on the state roads but was a hand full passing simis on I40. More work to do. Spoke to tech inspector after arrival. As I thought, they see trikes same as bikes, not allowed. He was not even interested enough to walk 50ft from where we were standing to look it over. There was very little interest shown in the trike by anybody attending. I thought these folks were motor heads! To be fair, most there were participants, busy walking, preparing the course or preparing their cars. I did go walk the course with some of the drivers. This is a Huge parking lot. It formerly served Tanger Outlett Mall, before the surrounding building foundations were wiped clean by an F4 about a decade ago. Big enough to allow plenty of hair pens, sweepers. 2 separate slaloms,and a couple of short straights. I think I could have wiped the floor with the Miatas,S2000s, small sedans, various riff-raff and a lone formula V. Talk is cheap. I'll never know.

I'm a dummy, had my smart phone camera in my pocket all the time and forgot to take it out for pictures.

There is still track day at Hallett and drags at Thunder Valley.

[jim99]

SCCA events are not friendly events. My experience is “We have rules and all rules will be followed.” And I’m in charge, so you will do as I say. Power trippers. Not much fun.

I have participated in a few local sports car club autocrosses and always received a warm welcome and lots of interest. Comment from one tech inspector at a local event was “We will find a class for you to run in, or we will make one for you.” Event was a blast.

Some people just like to have fun and others are there only to win.

[Liteway]

Yeah Jim, and 50 bucks to make 8 runs as temp member or 35 if you have a permanent SCCA membership. Best to look for kicks elsewhere.

[DaveJ98092]

(Stepping up on my ANTI-SCCA soap box) I fought with the Napoleon'ians with so many SCCA group leaders in the past. "You will do it my way or else..." Little PI$$ ANT's with lots of power. Probable a Comcast Cable TV setbox installer during the day shift....

Some SCCA groups will work within the rules and make a class that you can run if you can show that there are a few vehicles to run and can draw in spectators. But others are "I am the BMFIC and you can go to HEII if you don't follow MY rules. I spent $1,000's in SCCA fees over 15 years and finely said screw them. I had more fun on weekend track days at our local racetrack where anything goes as long as its proven safe.

(Stepping down now)

[Liteway]

[DaveJ98092]

Hey, new shoes up front. WOW!

[skifffz1to3]

Nice, did it change the handling any/much?

[stretchmobileski]

Wheels changed the entire look of your trike. I approve of that post!

[Liteway]

Alas, Its not real. Was rotating the tires on my Focus and wondered what the affect would be if I stood the wheels up alongside the trike.



But as you can see from this angle the wheels are not attached.
The big improvement in the trike's stance has me researching an alternative front end again. I would not go with meatballs this big though.(215/55/16, 7in wheel width).


I'm thinking more like Can AM Spyder size rubber.(165/65/14 5" rim width, I believe). These would match up better to the 175/55/17 5" rear and I would still have more contact rubber to the road, pound for pound than a Corvette.
That size would allow better looks and bigger brakes without the burden of too much extra mass. Might improve stability as well.
Assuming this chassis could be modified to accept the changes, it would take months of work and be expensive, so probably won't happen.

[h0race]

Three time poster, long time lurker... I got to say, this is the look I am looking for if I were to ever build. Love this look.


Tim

[elanimal28]

what's the last word on the new shock location? stability problem solved %100?

[Liteway]

No.
Weather for last couple of months has been poor. I have only traveled a few miles since the ill-fated trip to the SCCA autocross. Trike has been slightly torn down to work on the side marker lights, to make new plates for the bell cranks to provide more anti-roll and softer springing, and replaced the neoprene bushings on the lower ends of the shocks with needle bearings. New push rods for more ground clearance were made. Just screwing out the rod ends left me with fewer contact threads than I was comfortable with. Also, I had notched the old rods so I could get a wrench on them, but Captain gave me second thoughts about how thin they were and notches were not going to make them stronger. All this I would consider normal debugging after some substantial suspension design changes.

I still think the old fenders may have helped stability. I did not like their looks and was ready to discard them but decided I could modify them to look a little better rather than start from scratch. I am also welding up some steel braces to replace the riveted aluminum ones to minimize fender dancing.
My belief that those fenders gave added stability may be pure hogwash, but that's how I remember it.
Once back together, I'll test and asses and go from there.

[Liteway]

It was the fenders. Once installed trike is as stable as it ever was. That is pretty good but its still no lover of crosswinds.

Buffeting problem solved with some changes in the rear bulkhead/head fairing and cutting a hole in the floor. Cocpit is calm again.

I could not install the marker lights flush in the shock mount holes, not enough space.


Drove it 100 miles plus today. Haven't had so much fun in it since it was in its original configuration. Body motions are well controlled with no pitch or sway. Accelerates and corners like a demon. Faster it goes the better it feels.

Did some additional work on the door. Covered over some metal edges, redesigned the release handle and put a piston on it so its doesn't swing in the wind when open.



Had to replace the battery again, this time with a lithium ion, saved 5 lbs,same amount as the fenders and brackets added.

Haven't weighed it yet but calculating the various additions and subtractions its about 20 to 25 lbs lighter than it started out.

I'm satisfied. Work stops for a while as I catch up on some fun.

Neighbor liked it so much, he decided to build his own. Just kidding

[DaveJ98092]

Glad you worked it out. Side winds are a problem and the only fix would require a hole thru the sides. That I think is NOT happening. If you could clone one, I am standing in line for one.

Have you thought about changing the arm powered steering levers to foot powered. You would have to make hand brakes and throttle for it to work but the power to turn with your legs is much higher. I have a pump three wheel scooter when I was a kid that steered with my feet and pulled two handles for power. It was a reverse trike. Wish I had a picture.

[Liteway]

That's an intriguing idea, but the effort required at speed is low and delicate movements easier done with hands are required. Not saying it couldn't work though.