Spartan Trike Project

[DaveJ98092]

Feb 18, 2013 11:31:39 GMT -5 stretchmobileski said:

I don't know if you are aware of these nifty little tilt steering units. Makes your steering set up much more convenient. Available in left or right release, raw, powder coated and chrome. Sandrail suppliers for under $100.

Feb 16, 2016 12:05:18 GMT -5 extremetrikes said:

Really glad I read this! Thanks for the info

That is a nice unit. It comes in Left and Right pull pin, depending on dash gauges or switches pick the pull pin side as needed. Link to that Tilt steering unit at Dans Preformance Tilt Steering Unit LINK

[Deleted]

Could you send me the scamatics i would like to build one in my agg mec and meatl / welding class

[Deleted]

i ment mech and metal.

[captainamerica]

Knight, I have simple requirements laid out in earlier posts about how to go about asking for this. First off you need to PM me, not post on here. Proper spelling and grammar will also get you far.

[captainamerica]

March 2016

I haven't said much lately but things have been slowly moving along in the back around of life, I moved to a new place and a new shop is just being finished up by my neighbor that I am going to rent 300sqft of for my new work space. Six months without a work area has been rough but I have been pushing forward with CAD and parts that I am farming out to local shops. The uprights and brake caliper mounts were finally finished today, they have been out for production since October on the back burner, since most work around here is priority one to the NASCAR shops. I purchased all the bolts and bearings for the uprights as well as the steering column, u-joint, and quick release. I feel like once I get my work space back this thing is going to come together very quickly.





I also got the Spartan out for a couple of drives as the weather gets nicer. Did a full service on it before taking it out the first time, the brake bleed seems to fall off over and over not sure why. Current number one issue is something to do with the throttle sticking, I was at the gas station filling up and when I jumped back in and started it up the engine immediately jumped to 4k, idles at 1.2k normally. I tried it a couple of times while visually verifying that the throttles were closed, my back pack was in the foot well between my legs so that might have been touching the pedal. I re-positioned the backpack when I got out and looked around and tinkered a bit with the throttle, both the mains and the secondaries. When I jumped back in everything was fine. Yay for untraceable issues. Its still as fast as I want it to be, when I pass people on a two lane the acceleration is phenomenal.

[edvb]

captainamerica

Beautiful job on #2. Do you plan to make it as a street legal Kit? Are you planning on having fenders and if so do you have the attach points configured in the build? Will you have them as part of the kit?

Edward

[captainamerica]

Edward,

I would say I plan to make it a purchasable kit and leave it unsaid that is meant to pass street laws in most states, it will not be sold from me with any written form that says explicitly says that its street legal, just the understanding that you can go and register it if you feel inclined to do so. There are some legal stipulations that come along with labeling something as street legal that I don't really want to deal with. The kit would include anything that is not part of the bike, or off the shelf to save upfront cost to the customer (the steering rack is a big one), and allow them to build and purchase relevant parts as they go along. I am compiling a list of costs as I build this second one and will put out a number together once it is finished, or closer to finished, hopefully the number will be around the ~10k range with a total build cost around ~15-16k including what I think is a reasonable price for a used bike.

I do want to put in fenders, I have not design them in yet but they are in the plans in my head and they would come with the kit. The fenders will probably be mounted to the uprights directly and turn with the wheels.

Andrew

[edvb]

Thanks Andrew

There were a few things like fenders, parking brake, turn signals and headlights that the inspector concentrated on when inspecting my trike. You are doing a great job and love both of the builds you have.

Edward

[skifffz1to3]

edvb, in NC, a trike is a motorcycle. While parking brakes are a good idea, they are not required on 2 wheeled bikes therefore not on their 3 wheeled cousins. My donor bike, 2002 Yamaha FZ1, has current tags, title, registration and insurance...and most importantly VIN number. Once my conversion process is done (Tri Pod Fusion) ie. all lights, mirrors, signals, horn etc are installed...I roll out, hit the start button and enjoy the ride.

BTW, Captain, I'll holler once I'm done...and maybe we can ride some.

[captainamerica]

For sure, I have been on a few rides with motorcycle groups, no one else with a trike, that would be a nice change. Just curious about your VIN, when I did my registration I did it as if it was from the ground up, they took the motorcycle title but the VIN number is new and specific to my vehicle. Does your trike include most of the bike frame with VIN attached, cause then I would understand it?

Parking brake is a new one, I just put it in gear and assume its light enough to hold itself, hasn't failed yet. Not sure how I would incorporate that into the current design using the stock swing arm. In the future I want to make a swing arm with a large rear tire that uses a car rim but it still double shear and put a reverse motor into the arm itself where the chain offset sprocket is. Lots to do in the future.

[edvb]

Well mine is a CVT drive so that might be part of having a parking brake in Wisconsin. It is titled as a homemade motorcycle but as you say every state is different. The reverse sounds interesting and cannot wait to see what you come up with.

The one thing I really like on my trike is the wind deflector I installed so the air just touches the top of my head. We do not have to wear helmets in my state and at the speeds I cruise at I normally do not wear one. The deflector is small and does a great job deflecting the wind. On extended rides it just makes things so much more comfortable.

Edward

[skifffz1to3]

Mar 18, 2016 22:26:25 GMT -5 captainamerica said:

For sure, I have been on a few rides with motorcycle groups, no one else with a trike, that would be a nice change. Just curious about your VIN, when I did my registration I did it as if it was from the ground up, they took the motorcycle title but the VIN number is new and specific to my vehicle. Does your trike include most of the bike frame with VIN attached, cause then I would understand it?

Yes Captain, all of the frame minus the front suspension...my own adaptation/departure from the original Tri Pod Gen 2 chassis plans. Tri Pod Chassis "tub" attached to my Yamaha FZ1 frame = "Tri Pod Fusion". 

Parking brake is a new one, I just put it in gear and assume its light enough to hold itself, hasn't failed yet. Not sure how I would incorporate that into the current design using the stock swing arm. In the future I want to make a swing arm with a large rear tire that uses a car rim but it still double shear and put a reverse motor into the arm itself where the chain offset sprocket is. Lots to do in the future.

My thoughts exactly. For now, I just have to finish this one...then re-engineer the things I have to fix for build # 2 (which includes the same things you mentioned), plus the A-arms, hubs and uprights/spindals.


Also, I now have molds for the main (3) body panels. Dash and fenders will be completed very soon. 

Attachments:

[captainamerica]

Whats your track and wheelbase Skiff? Nice looking body, I'll be curious to see how the whole thing looks when its done. There's going to be a second seat in there right?

[skifffz1to3]

WB  is about 103"ish X70" track. I'll confirm next trip to shop. The body panels are from tripodcars.com Australia, as well as the plans for the Gen 2 "tub", A-arms and uprights. First USA made panels should be out of the molds around June. And yes, second seat will be there...

[captainamerica]

April 2016

Haven't said much lately but things are moving forward, now that I am into my new work space I expect things to pick up quickly. Right now the fuel tank, all a-arm bracketing and mounting parts, gauge cluster, and the wings for the bell cranks are out for manufacture with the laser cutter. I Also just recieved the bellcrank centers and the weld in A-arm mount bungs from the machine shop. Atlantic Engineering out of Troutman, NC does a dang good job and at a reasonable price. $25 a piece for the Bellcrank centers and $8 each for the bungs, shown in the third picture. The mount bungs support the bolts that hold the A-arm mounts onto the chassis, unboltable mounts was a big one for me in allowing simpler body design and removal, hopefully it pays off.

I went home for my Father's wedding at the beginning of the month and spent most of a day in California prepping both my Lathe and Mill for the move across the country, I feel like I have 20k in resources sitting on the wrong side of the country so I am going to pay a little more and get them where I can use them. While I was there I found a box with some missing smog equipment for the Spartan which has been throwing an FI code since day one because of the vapor reduction ports (or whatever they are) on the top of the valve cover. I had them blocked off, and the sensor connector just hanging out, so now its going to be hooked to one of them and the air box and the connector hooked up. That should solve that problem.





Its hard to tell from the picture but I opted for sheet metal A-arm mounts that bolt to the chassis instead of the original machined design, price went from $90 a piece to like $20. I also changed the center steering column mount design to being two straight pieces of square tubing instead of the bent original design, this is much simpler and it will make mounting the bell cranks much easier, an all around win, you don't always get those in design. I also changed ball joints to a stock moog piece that we currently use as the upper front A-arm joint in NASCAR, the team gets them for free, I get them for $52 a piece. That being said the big win is in the premade threaded ring that I can buy off the shelf for $17 a piece and just weld straight into the A-arm. Lots of time and effort saved with that one, and probably money at the end of the day.

[noahkatz]

captain,

What's the purpose of the rod-ended links that go from the frt suspension rocker arms forward to that gizmo (which is what?) mounted in front of the steering rack?

On reverse, just saw in the thread on homemade T Rex that he uses a winch with a rubber roller on it that is pushed into contact w/the rear tire.

With a way to keep it engaged (I'm thinking a lever with over-center spring), it could also act as a parking brake.

On the uprights, instead of those cuts to avoid having to pierce, how about just drilling starter holes?

That would cost something, but you'd save on welding.

What do the complete uprights w/bearings weigh?

[captainamerica]

The "gizmo" at the front is the adjustable anti-roll bar, the two links are attached to vertical "blades" that can be rotated between 0 and 90 degrees, in their current position the roll bar is as weak as it can be as the blades will bend like a diving board, when you rotate them 90 degree the diving board will be in plane with the direction of bend and be much much stiffer. Its a bit expensive but it will be good for determining a standard rollback stiffness that will be much cheaper.

My problem with that type of reverse is that it feel tacky even when its well done, the best I have seen is the scorpion P6 which has a block modification which allows the trans input shaft to stick out and run a gear that turns the output shaft in reverse, this is followed closely by the reverse trike on here that uses a starter bolted to a replacement stator to output shaft cover.

While you are correct about drilling holes I do not own the waterjet, that is being contracted out and that added step would probably cost me just as much. They would need to pre-cut the aluminum so they could put it on a mill and drill all the holes, then tell the waterjet machine where these holes are. Its just a hassle that isn't worth the time if your not doing it all yourself. That being said I am redesigning the uprights again to handle Honda spindles and be made from bent sheet steel so that it can be MIG welded, at least that is the current idea. The cost of this design is just to much for what I can get off the shelf, I picked up some parts yesterday for making a rear axle (4 wheel) bolt on kit from the auto parts store, hub with splines was $35, axle with both stubs and cv's was $60, wheel bearing $40. I am currently look at about $350 for the waterjet upright, $300 for the spindle, and another $60 for the bearings.

I will get back to you later on the weights as I don't have them in front of me.

[Liteway]

Appropriate size front uprights at a reasonable cost are a real problem for builders.

Have you considered CanAm spider parts?

Trouble is,new ones are not cheap and finding good used ones from a reliable source is a hassle.
That said, it still looks like the best alternative for a light weight trike (as of now) for those of us who cannot abide the weight of the Mustang II parts or the unfavorable geometry of an old VW.



I'm a very interested follower in what you can achieve.
Good luck on this, and thanks for keeping us posted.

Later; How does the upper ball joint attach to the upright?

[jim99]

I raced formula cars on ovals for many years and front spindles were a problem as we tended to “bang” wheels with one another and that was hard on spindles.
Our goal was to find a cheap, durable, and lightweight spindle.

Try as we did, we found that we could have:
1 - Cheap, durable (heavy), but not lightweight
2 – Durable, lightweight, but not cheap
3 – Lightweight, cheap, but not durable

But never all three in one. Welcome to the manufacturing of parts, give a little here, take a little there and try to come up with the best you can for your situation.

The spindle that we ended up using the most was constructed from a piece of 1 ¼”dia. stress proof CRS machined for cup and cone bearings and threaded on the end for a retaining nut. On the other end we drilled a 1” dia hole at whatever angle we wanted for spindle inclination. Then inserted a 1” dia. Heavy wall tube that was tapped on both ends ½”-20 thread. Weld on brackets to bolt break caliper and steering arm to and that was our spindle.
They were fairly cheap, easy to fabricate, would take a fair beating and easy to replace.

I used the same design on both of my trikes and the one I have now has almost 20,000 trouble free miles on them.

[captainamerica]

I have my own suspension layout, kingpin, castor, camber which pretty much stops me from using off the shelf parts, and I like designing this stuff. But I do want to build something that is cheap and reliable, weight might take a hit but I think people will accept that for difference in price. Dennis Palatov, dpcars.net makes and sells his own uprights that he uses on his cars, $600 a piece or more which is reasonable.

The upper ball joint is really a spherical joint, the lower mount is a ball joint. The spherical bearing is just pressed into the upper attachment, since the push rods go to the lower A-arms there is very little shear loading on that joint which allows me to do that. Its typical of a Formula car suspension setup.



This weighed in at 11lbs, so that is my goal for a welded steel upright with similar attachments.