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Post by DaveJ98092 on Feb 23, 2014 2:54:09 GMT -5
One tooth on the front sprocket is like 3 teeth on the rear. So like said dropping 1 tooth on the front will help with the launch but your crusing RPM will go up.
I also like to replace the clutch springs with heaver ones to keep the clutch from slipping with heavy loads and speeds. Easy to change springs, need a gasket for the side cover.
Your gas mileage will be very low using only 1st gear. Your net effect gear ratio is like 21:1 (including the internal reduction gears).
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Post by Liteway on Feb 23, 2014 12:27:23 GMT -5
Heavy duty clutch springs are a great idea. Motorcycle clutches are to light while working through a foot pedal anyway. Should help that situation as well.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Feb 23, 2014 23:38:46 GMT -5
My son's Ninja 500 would cruse along and he would crank on the throttle and as the bike accelerated, the RPMs would soar. He finely listened to Papa and found out that if he backed off the throttle the RPMs would drop back down some. I had explained that he was having clutch slipping issues. He took the clutch basket out, cleaned up the basket added new disc's. Then we tried two different heaver springs sets. The heavest caused his hand to hurt and the next lightest was not much better that the stock ones so we put in 3 heavy and 2 lighter ones. I think they were like $9 a set so easy to change and figure out the best combo. The springs were spec'ed for a Ninja 1000 I think and came with 6 but his clutch basket takes 5.
In the lower gears the slippage still happens but you can not tell as much. Its when you are in top gear and hammer it.
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Post by captainamerica on Feb 26, 2014 20:55:15 GMT -5
I highly recommend finding a 2007-08 GSXR1000, it came with a hydraulic clutch stock OEM and makes a bit more power. You can probably find one for $8000, might be out of your price range but it will make like easier. As the poster you can delete your posts, please do so  , remember to hit reply down at the bottom not quote above each post. Keep us updated on your build and hit me up if you have questions or need help, you can send me messages through my profile on here, or just ask with a post if everyone could benefit from the answer. Andrew |
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Mick
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Post by Mick on Mar 7, 2014 9:42:31 GMT -5
I am new to the forum and have just read through all pages of your build. Nice design! I like how you have the the dimensions compact, 3 wheels are almost a triangle.
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Post by captainamerica on Mar 7, 2014 18:23:04 GMT -5
Ned, (I am assuming)
Nice work finding one for that price, hopefully its still turns over and is fully function from and engine drive train perspective. I am going to release my chassis drawing sometime in the next two weeks if that interests you or anyone else on here. It will be my current chassis with all the fixes along the way but it should still be relatively easy to build. Sheet metal is thicker then it should be, the reality is it should be 16 gauge, there is everything from 18 to 10 on the chassis.
Andrew
Thanks for the praise Mick.
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Mick
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Posts: 128
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Post by Mick on Mar 8, 2014 3:54:10 GMT -5
Chassis plans would be great, although I am building a marine ply monocoque I will need ideas to lose some length off the wheelbase as I have to use the original bike frame to avoid the stringent UK approval test so I have the distance from the engine to the front of the headstock added to the length, although on my model, I have put a little 'point' in front of the fuel tank hump so I can mount the frame forward a little to lose those few inches, also because I am using a solid front axle, it will sit in front of my feet, this probably adds about 10 inches to my wheelbase!
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Post by captainamerica on Mar 8, 2014 15:35:28 GMT -5
Ned, Currently I think the weight with me in the vehicle is sitting around the 1100lb range with me in it, I guess conservatively so that I won't be depressed when I put it on the scales. It could be done quite a bit lighter the second time around. I am guessing this based on the distance the springs compress and their spring rate. The idea was 300lbs per front wheel and 400 on the rear wheel. I am near this value, but I think the rear is heavier. The front springs are 100lb/in and the rear is 450lb/in (stock off the bike). Andrew Below is the actual dimensions of the chassis, which I will call the A chassis. I also have a modified A chassis that keeps basic dimensions it better for manufacture and safety. There is also a B chassis that I have been working on for quite awhile now that redesigns the whole front end, that will be the second chassis I make if I have the time. Please let me know if there are any dimensions that I missed, this is a general, non detailed version obviously, I will update this post with the top view tomorrow probably.   |
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Post by Liteway on Mar 8, 2014 20:20:49 GMT -5
I think you a right about the back carrying over 40% of the weight. I would be very surprised if you wind up with 60% of the weight on the front tires. Engine mass aft of center, drivers mass about centered and only the the relatively light frame more forward.
Mine is configured basically the same but places the driver slightly farther forward with my feet about even with the leading edge of the front tires. If my admittedly crude means of measuring (Bathroom scales, one corner at a time) is right I am 53/47 with rider aboard.
This is not a bad thing.
60/40 may be good for handling but really bad for traction in a high powered rear drive trike. Those ft wide tires on a Trex are there for reasons beside looks.
At 53/47 I feel mine is a good compromise but still traction limited in low gear.
With your much wider track and trick anti-roll bar, your handling/cornering will be just fine with that kind of weight distribution. Drive traction may be a bigger concern. You'll have a better trike if its 55/45 instead of 60/40 and I think you'll be closer to that anyway.
Let me know how my conjecture works out in the real world when you drive it.
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Post by captainamerica on Mar 10, 2014 19:15:29 GMT -5
I agree with just about everything you said except my light front end, metal is heavy, the front is not as light as it would seem, the CG of the trike is directly over the backbone cross member at the bottom without the driver in the vehicle. I can literally use a floor jack and lift all the wheels from that center point, which has its advantages when you want to turn the thing around in the garage by yourself. Once I get myself a decent scale, or bathroom variant that can handle 400 lbs I will do the weights and let you know. Also for the non-Americans in the crowd...voila...metric.   |
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Post by captainamerica on Mar 11, 2014 20:14:50 GMT -5
March 11, 2014 Finally got something done here in North Carolina, used my new welder to make the upper engine mounts. They look like complete nuts but they do the job. The real problem is holding the plasma cutter steady. Tried it out, the engine moves a lot less which is nice but the chassis now vibrates like hell, which is normal I suppose, next up is fixing the linkage for the shifter which is getting worse by the day. Also I have a new clutch with heavier springs, steel sprockets 13(OEM is 17)-44, and chain which will go on when the vehicle gets taken apart for powder coating. I also have all the body panel templates cut out for the front of the vehicle, just need to cut the metal and finish them now. I also bought a cheap bathroom scale and did the weights, the CAD model predicted 796lbs (361Kg) without driver, the reality was 765lb. All of the following was without the driver as I was alone and I can't sit in the vehicle and drop the jack on the scale at the same time. Front to rear was 58/42 split with the wheels weights coming out to be 225 LF, 219 RF, 320 Rear. So the side the side is split almost on center. At the end of the day this means that I have to be light on the acceleration as was pointed out previously. I am excited at the prospect of doing the second chassis correctly and saving around 50lbs on the next revision, no more 10gauge sheet metal. All my chassis will be made of 1020 steel, alloy is a waste of time for fabrication for what I am doing. But I added some pictures below to show you what my current redesign looks like, its not finished, I believe the back end around the engine is going to go back to the same as the original because its easier to fabricate. The biggest change is the a-arm mounts are now angled and all the pipes make straight lines to the front which give more room for the knees.        |
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Post by stretchmobileski on Mar 11, 2014 21:38:38 GMT -5
Captain, while you have your bike apart for coating, take a look at your clutch basket and see if there is room to machine some steel to add weight to the rotating mass. I have been looking at my ZX10 and it looks like I can add some to the clutch basket and maybe the starter gear side. I think it will help on take off and not have to slip the clutch so much. Dirt bikes have aftermarket heavier flywheels available for them. How's the weather on the right side of the country?
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Post by Liteway on Mar 11, 2014 23:02:48 GMT -5
You would have to very careful with the balance. How to attach?
Think you went bit overboard on the gearing change, Captain. (no pun intended).
( edit for clarity 3/12)
Final drive ratio has gone from 2.58 to 1 3.38 to one?
Engine speed with stock gearing at 60 is about 4100rpm.
If my math is right, this should go to about 5400 , faster than it would turn in 4th with stock gearing.
Should solve the launch problem, but your engine will be very busy at cruising speeds.
Dropping one tooth or a max of 2 would be a better compromise.
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Post by stretchmobileski on Mar 12, 2014 12:24:54 GMT -5
You would have to very careful with the balance. How to attach? They are bolted together. If I turn some steel stock down to sandwich between the parts using the same bolts it might work. As long as everything is turned the same is shouldn't affect balance. |
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Post by mtntech on Mar 12, 2014 22:43:28 GMT -5
Redesign the upper engine mounts and use polyurethane or rubber bushings to isolate them from the chassis.
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Post by Liteway on Mar 13, 2014 12:32:20 GMT -5
Sport bike engines are nearly always bolted in solid so they become a stressed member of the frame. Only modern bikes with engines that use isolation mounts that I know of are Harleys that are real shakers. Mine is smooth enough bolted in directly, and vibration level is typical for a modern 4cyl motorcycle. Not sure how much vibration we are talking about here.
Have you ridden a GSXR Captain? Vibration levels in general should be similar. If not, there may be an internal issue with the motor. If the vibration only happened after the front mounts were installed perhaps they are not stiff enough laterally.
Man, I forgot. Have you installed a proper seat yet? Without padding at your back and posterior, any vibration transfer, steel to bone, will be intensified.
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Post by jim99 on Mar 13, 2014 18:27:20 GMT -5
When using your plasma cutter, first spray some anti-splatter to the area you plan to cut, it will provide lube for the tip and allow it to slide across the metal with less effort. I'm sure you already place or clamp a piece of scrap on top of the piece you are cutting to use as a guide. Those two tricks will make your plasma cuts much nicer.
In regard to using mild steel vs. alloy, one thing about mild steel is it will bend under impact and absorb energy that your body would otherwise absorb.
Start planning your road trips; you are not far from the Tail of The Dragon. That area of N.C. is a great place to ride with many great roads.
Jim
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Post by mtntech on Mar 13, 2014 22:13:16 GMT -5
Since the engine is not a stressed member of the chassis I would isolate the entire powerplant. The less vibration the better.
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Post by captainamerica on Mar 13, 2014 22:13:32 GMT -5
Alloy also should be TIG welded and heat treated which is an added expense, besides it being almost twice as much. Just looked at the dragon tail, looks awesome and 4 hours away, i needs some cushions for my seat. The vibration level is probably not that bad, it was just noticeably different, but I do need lateral supports on those mounts, they are just sheets of metal with an end flange for mounting.
With regards to plasma cutting, I am under the impression the gun should be held just off the metal, but I concur the use of a flat edge, I use a 2x1 aluminum tube that allows for relatively smooth sliding.
Got one of the removable strut enclosure pieces mounted today, another should be done tomorrow if I have time. Headed to Bristol this weekend for the battle at the Colosseum, also Formula 1 is finally back on. Lots of entertainment.
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Mick
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by Mick on Mar 16, 2014 18:43:51 GMT -5
Quick question about your tyres, are the front and back the same size and the same compound? I was thinking of putting normal road/ sport rubber on the front and ultra sticky on he rear.
I had an MG TF 160, Standard Eagle F2 all round, rear end was very planted and would not slide but it had under steer, replaced the front tyres with more sticky tyres and it made the car perfect, total neutral.
I was thinking of the opposite way round, to balance out all the power going through a single back tyre!
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, remember to hit reply down at the bottom not quote above each post. Keep us updated on your build and hit me up if you have questions or need help, you can send me messages through my profile on here, or just ask with a post if everyone could benefit from the answer.
