njnelson98
Junior Member
Reverse Trikes or Bikes!
Posts: 12
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Post by njnelson98 on Feb 16, 2016 20:07:40 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on in hub motors? I have one but I'd think if I had a normal motor I could do more modding on it. What are your thoughts? Also if anyone knew of sites to order electric motors from please let me know! Oh and what sort of torque are you gonna need for a small RT?
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Post by srx660 on Feb 23, 2016 13:25:06 GMT -5
If you are talking about a street driven RT and not a HPV based trike you can find the basic costs of motors, etc below. Local people could be a lot cheaper but you need to find the ones into electric vehicles.I would think you would need from 40 to 100 HP to have a road worthy transportation trike. Most RT's built with cycle engines use the 60 to 100 hp range of engines too. Electric motors are known for their high torque. I keep having thoughts of a torque converter type mid-engine transaxle for a electric vehicle because it will slip some and lockup when certain speeds are reached. This would stop the wheel spin common in direct drive EV's that i have seen. www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=8&osCsid=ve2nuo5qjh73tt6enp80f50uo2Basically, from what i have been reading on the EV forums is most people give up on the hub motors for passenger transporting vehicles. They just can't make them large enough to power a over 1000 lb vehicle for enough time for basic transporttion to work and home. SRX660
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Post by wotmeister on Oct 24, 2017 10:50:29 GMT -5
I've got experience with this question. My old buddy and I have both built electric powered tadpole trikes (reverse trikes if you will). His is chain drive, mine is hub motor drive. They weigh about the same, have the same tires, frontal area, not quite identical but similar. At the same speed on the same road (we ride together a lot on long trips) my watt-hours per mile is usually 50% to 75% worse. Chain drive (assuming there is a transmission or derailleur of some kind) allows you to match the speed of the trike to the torque curve of the motor, and keep the motor at ideal RPM. A hub drive lugs at low speeds, and is rarely in that torque curve sweet spot. Chain drive tied directly to the wheel with no transmission suffers from the same inefficiency as a hub motor. YMMV (your mileage may vary, quite literally)
I'll post some pics of these two builds shortly. Mine is electric drive, legally qualifies as an Electric Bicycle according to the laws of the State of Missouri, goes 30 MPH, 60 mile range, carries me and three sacks of groceries through terrible weather if need be, and gets a lot of stares. I've got about 7000 miles on it, completely shop made. (Home-made? No, I built it in a g*****n shop not in my living room.) Check the link in my signature for a full build.
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Oct 24, 2017 11:34:55 GMT -5
WOT, welcome to the forum. Some of us have done some research on Hub drive VS chain and gear drive on a light weight EV Trike. The final answer is about what you said above. I had the idea to do dual hub drives up front but when I did a study on watt hour drain on the batteries, 140 watt/hr it was proven that if I were to do a frame mounted motor and drive a modified differential by removing the ring and pinion and putting a Chain Ring on it and do half shafts out to the wheels I'd us about 30 Watt/Hr. That was about 10 more miles per charge @ 80% discharge limits. (from memory of 5 years back) I do not know many builders that build their trikes inside their living room. I do my design work sitting here but all work is done OUT in my "Black Hole" 3 car garage. Keeps the wife of 42 years a bit happier with me wasting my time and money on my "Projects". But it is still "Home Built" to me. It would need to be a full shop dedicated to JUST building the items (more than 10 each) for me to say its not "Home Built"....
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Mar 23, 2018 14:52:11 GMT -5
OK I have found a good Hub drive that seems to be a bit more efficient. It is liquid cooled and has two hub motors (2 each MHM-602) side by side in one housing and will move a 900 pound trike and rider OK. www.enertrac.net/index.php Dual motor system mounts on a forged aluminum wheel. We have done dual motor systems on wheel sizes from 16 inch to 18 inches and 3.5 to 10 inches wide (not all combinations are available) The DU-602 with our Liquid cooling option will do over 70KW peak and with the right battery voltage will take a bike to over 160Kph. The ability of this motor to perform is only as good as the batteries you use. We recommend a Kelly controller, a 144 volts 400 amps KLS14401. Figure on using 150 to 250 watt-hr per mile or 93 to 160 watt-hr per Km for a 700 pound bike plus rider. It’s always best to figure power usage on the high side. The Du-602 mounted in a forged aluminum rim price is 2800.00 to 3800.00 USD, Depending on the wheel size and cut out design and liquid cooling option. The controller is around 900 USD. This is really important: Before you begin make sure you know all the rules and regulations necessary to make it road legal. I hope this helps, if you go forward and purchase a motor system from us and we can offer everything needed except the batteries. You would still need to supply the batteries, the Battery Management System and a Charger system.So using 2 or 4 "Re-Claimed" Chevy Volt 144 volt modules you can go about 60 to 120 miles per charge and the cost would be about $1.50 per charge on your own house power but FREE at some charging station around the world. This is NOT cheap up front. Where it pays off is in about 2-3 years of commuting everyday. Then the savings will pay for any upgrades.
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Post by Liteway on Mar 24, 2018 7:54:43 GMT -5
Being unsprung weight, wouldn't a hub motor take a beating riding along inside the wheel? Heavy wheels on light weight vehicles also negate some of the suspension's compliance ability and beat up the driver/passenger as well. Am I wrong?
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Mar 24, 2018 15:47:53 GMT -5
I have not tested one yet but all the reading I have done they seem to be solid enough that the vibrations do not cause problems.
Yes there is the weight issues of being in the outside of a swinging arc. But can not be much worse than a Maxi Scooter's Swingarm mounted engine/CVT.
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TomyJ
Full Member
TomyJcreations Pinterest
Posts: 191
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Post by TomyJ on Aug 22, 2018 13:54:18 GMT -5
Hi Guy's, Here is a site I have been looking at for some time, You must know Watts (motor) means speed, Volts (battery) and amp hours (Ah) means distance. The more Watts and Volts the more money, My electric scooter, aluminum frame, 350 watts and 36 volts @13ah = 25MPH and 20 miles distance. "GoldenMotor/magicPie.com", click on BLDC motors and think about watts,,, 5 motorcycle, 10K+ trike, car?
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Post by DaveJ98092 on Aug 22, 2018 21:08:23 GMT -5
While Watts (Kelo Watts) does mean speed somewhat, a 7-10 Kw 36 volt Dc motor will be limited to about 400 RPM under load. But a 15 Kw 144 Volt 3 phase AC motor will spin around 1500 RPM under load so speed is also related to Volts. Its a bit more than 10 RPM per volt. Volts plus Ah's do mean distance for most configurations.
The Entrac Hub motor above is a dual motor, each one a 144V AC 3 phase. You will need a good controller that converts Battery's DC into 3 Phase AC to run this.
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