|
Post by noahkatz on May 16, 2016 14:21:54 GMT -5
Lets see, in USA and Canada we do NOT have to pay a tax to drive our cars or trucks into a major city. Outrageous parking fees yes but no city tax. From what I was told, that is one of the pluses of a motorcycle in London, no city entrance tax. Same here, plus the inequality works in an RT's favor - less complexity, weight, and cost. Besides, an RT easily gives more than ample performance, and testers of the Morgan 3 commented that one of its endearing traits is that you can have so much fun at legal speeds. With modern performance cars you become a public menace if you get anywhere near their limits on the street.
|
|
|
Post by captainamerica on Jun 19, 2016 14:27:18 GMT -5
There has already been a lot of comments here, most of it I agree with as far as comparisons go. My experience at the local SCCA autocross, keep in mind my trike is not setup super well and I am not a race car driver, but I was about 10 seconds off the pace. As Jim pointed out early on above the car just doesn't have the rear traction to allow power down on corner exit without losing the back end. This was also a major issue in the slalom, it under steers like crazy. With my new design, when its done, where I can bolt on a chain driven rear end instead of the swing arm I will be able to do a back to back test with a similar setup and let you know how much of difference it makes.
Side note, power to weight is only as useful as the amount of power you can put to the ground.
-Andrew
|
|
|
Post by Liteway on Jun 19, 2016 20:03:41 GMT -5
Dispite it's relatively its small size, mine also has a problem in tight corners, particularly the u type often found on auto cross courses. Front won't bite when accelerating . When you described this problem in another thread, I suggested Ackerman angles may be at fault. I guess I had not yet pushed mine hard enough in really tight near full lock corners to get the nasty front push under throttle. I can get the back to slide but it does not stop the front from pushing way wide.
Still believe It could be Ackerman related and intend to do some experimenting to see if the situation can be improved. If not, it's unlikely to become an effective auto crosser. I fear it could just as easily be something inherit in rear drive tadpoles. Hope not.
Look forward to your four wheel conversion comparison.
|
|
|
Post by Liteway on Jun 19, 2016 21:32:53 GMT -5
I have time on my hands and AC in the shop so I went out and cranked my toe out a couple of degrees as a temp measure to get more angular difference between the front wheels at full lock , then drove over to my local skid pad/test facility. Full lock under steer situation seemed a bit improved but not dramatically so I went back to garage to add a couple more degrees toe out. Definite improvement, though still a problem. Over on my tight s series corners course, understeer completely gone.
And something unexpected. You know that over center feeling we get in the steering where it does the opposite of self center near full lock? Fixed. Self centers normally now.
I definitely have to reangle my steering arms. 10 years and I still have not got it fully sorted
All this extreme stuff has revealed that the inside front wheel can still lift very suddenly in an off camber turn,that is where the road banks opposite the direction of turn, not often encountered but apparently not a place to play around. I had thought that banished with the anti roll bar installation. Guess I'm near the limits imposed by my cg track etc. No need of stickier front tires.
|
|
|
Post by Liteway on Jun 22, 2016 14:03:29 GMT -5
Does anyone know of an event, post WWII , where a trike has bested competing 4 wheeled vehicles, hill climb,auto cross or road race?
If not documented, how about anecdotally? Even a small club event.
|
|
|
Post by jim99 on Jun 23, 2016 13:48:22 GMT -5
This may not be a popular suggestion, but maybe this type of vehicle would be better suited if it had less horsepower for everyday all round driving, thus making it less challenging to drive. I know there are some builders using the Suzuki Burgman scooters for power, anyone care to comment on lower horsepower trikes.
Sort of like Suzuki retarding the timing in the first three gears of the sportbikes to kill off lots of horsepower and to try and keep the sportbike riders from killing themselves. (Very easy to defeat)
Personally, I enjoy the understeer, oversteer, and loss of rear wheel traction. That’s why I use a 1300cc Hayabusa in my trike. I do not care to drive a minivan comfortably down the road, I want the challenge.
One thing I have not seen mentioned much is brakes. Because of my poor driving style, I like really big brakes to get me out of trouble. The largest diameter rotor and at least four piston calipers that will fit inside the wheel. The ability to reduce your speed rapidly before a turn is initiated and be slow enough off the corner so that you can have the trike pointed straight will allow you to accelerate rapidly off the corner rather than trying to power through the corner, but that acceleration takes horsepower. May be a poor way to go through a tight corner, but works for me.
Some builders use the rotors and calipers from the donor bike. My view of this is, I look at the contact patch a bike tire has and the much larger contact patch that a seven inch wide tire has and the additional weight of a trike and passengers that you need to stop. Motorcycle Mfg.’s do not task their engineers to design in enough braking power to control a seven inch wide tire and the added weight.
Well I’ve rambled way off course, my point is brakes are a large part of “handling”, but seem to be an afterthought in the discussion of how to improve lap times.
By the way, my moto is: Horsepower, some is good, more is better and way too much is just right.
Jim
|
|
2rike
Full Member
Posts: 184
|
Post by 2rike on Jun 23, 2016 15:58:08 GMT -5
This may not be a popular suggestion, but maybe this type of vehicle would be better suited if it had less horsepower for everyday all round driving, thus making it less challenging to drive. I know there are some builders using the Suzuki Burgman scooters for power, anyone care to comment on lower horsepower trikes. Sort of like Suzuki retarding the timing in the first three gears of the sportbikes to kill off lots of horsepower and to try and keep the sportbike riders from killing themselves. (Very easy to defeat) Personally, I enjoy the understeer, oversteer, and loss of rear wheel traction. That’s why I use a 1300cc Hayabusa in my trike. I do not care to drive a minivan comfortably down the road, I want the challenge. One thing I have not seen mentioned much is brakes. Because of my poor driving style, I like really big brakes to get me out of trouble. The largest diameter rotor and at least four piston calipers that will fit inside the wheel. The ability to reduce your speed rapidly before a turn is initiated and be slow enough off the corner so that you can have the trike pointed straight will allow you to accelerate rapidly off the corner rather than trying to power through the corner, but that acceleration takes horsepower. May be a poor way to go through a tight corner, but works for me. Some builders use the rotors and calipers from the donor bike. My view of this is, I look at the contact patch a bike tire has and the much larger contact patch that a seven inch wide tire has and the additional weight of a trike and passengers that you need to stop. Motorcycle Mfg.’s do not task their engineers to design in enough braking power to control a seven inch wide tire and the added weight. Well I’ve rambled way off course, my point is brakes are a large part of “handling”, but seem to be an afterthought in the discussion of how to improve lap times. By the way, my moto is: Horsepower, some is good, more is better and way too much is just right. Jim Hello Jim, I find in my 2rike that I use the engine braking of the R1 to slow down, slotting down the gears soon scrubs loads of speed off and it will even momentarily lock the rear wheel if you do it really quickly and then just finish off with a bit of foot brake and then your ready in the right gear to get back on the gas!
|
|
|
Post by mtntech on Jun 23, 2016 23:04:07 GMT -5
Horsepower is great , especially when accompanied with a healthy dose of torque!
|
|
|
Post by tripod1 on Jun 8, 2017 21:52:44 GMT -5
This thread seems dead but I have plenty of thoughts on some of the things stated here if anyone is interested in discussing them.
Andrew.
|
|
|
Post by skifffz1to3 on Jun 12, 2017 23:49:06 GMT -5
Hey Andrew, wazzup? Speaking of dead, the TriPod forum has been quiet since the announcement in April? Someone did post up the other day asking about another person's build. I guess the DIY kit crowd is still in shock. I know I was...for a bit. How's the sale going?
|
|
|
Post by DaveJ98092 on Jun 13, 2017 18:12:02 GMT -5
This thread seems dead but I have plenty of thoughts on some of the things stated here if anyone is interested in discussing them. Andrew. Andrew, We all are interested in discussing ideas, this is what this forum is about. I have read thru this thread and agree with most of what members have posted. We all have our own thoughts on how to do suspensions. But I do think if someone has input on possibly a better way, again this is what this forum is about. That said, I am sure a few of us would like to hear your thoughts on things. You may change a few minds, or not.
|
|