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Post by skifffz1to3 on Jul 16, 2014 23:56:35 GMT -5
Hello, I'm new here...posted once a few months back...getting serious about RT's...and riding again. Quick history: I've been riding since 1972, amassing over 300,000 miles on two wheels. My current bike is a 2002 Yamaha FZ1 with 137,678 miles...with plans to push over 200k via RT conversion asap. Feb 1, 2014 I had a bad crash, guy failed to yield on a left turn green...and speeding...all my years and safe miles couldn't help me that day. I suffered a fractured (fx) neck, cheek bone, humerus, and compound fx right wrist. Five surgeries the first 15 days on wrist. Fast forward, 5 months post surgery, still can not raise or lower the hand, it will bend, but not via muscle control...no more conventional motorcycle riding, not even Spyder type. The goal now is a side by side RT with steering wheel, paddle shift, all left hand controls...for now (still hoping for rt hand to recover). My '02 FZ1 will be my donor power plant and frame.
I have researched countless hours on the web, pouring over forums like this...exploring various chassis builds. Most are way out of my reach $$$. (still out of work, LTD barely pays bills, but thank God for that). I still need to ride! What are your thoughts on VW sand rail frame, cut behind seat area and modified to accept my FZ1 frame? Of course, proper lateral support to motorcycle frame is essential for stability. Seems like this is my fastest, cheapest way to get rolling again. ..certainly not my end game plan. Once I'm back in the saddle again, and finances improve, I'll begin a proper chassis build and swap over the FZ1 donor.
Thoughts, ideas?
Thanks,
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Post by stretchmobileski on Jul 17, 2014 22:24:37 GMT -5
I've seen several versions of this. The draw back is that it becomes a very long wheel base. Most sand rails have the front axle well ahead of the pedal box. The VW front suspension is not that wide. You can buy extended widths which would help in stability. You can find sand rail frames fairly cheap.  |
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Post by skifffz1to3 on Jul 20, 2014 1:53:04 GMT -5
Yes, I have thought about the length, plan to shorten sandrail chassis enough, and move the steering mech back some. Iv'e seen where the vw front beams can be cut out in the middle (with proper support) to allow better peddle box positioning. I have also located two different sandrails locally.
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Post by skifffz1to3 on Jul 20, 2014 23:22:29 GMT -5
I have so much to learn. tow-in, camber, ackerman...where to start? Going to check out a sand rail rolling chassis this am. Guy has dropped price $300. via texting, have not seen it yet!
tripplethreat, would your steering system work with a side by side design? Still wishful thinking (full recovery of hand/wrist) till then, safe bet will be steering wheel...re-engineer later. This project must be path of least resistance...fastest path to fully operational asap...I'm having withdrawals here!
Is there a magic number for wheelbase?
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Post by Liteway on Jul 21, 2014 21:24:56 GMT -5
Maybe. There would be new technical problems to solve. If built like mine both points of attachment to the tie rod would be left of center, leaving the passenger side unsupported.
A side by side is going be much heavier than mine especially with 2 aboard and steering effort would probably be excessive, once again requiring a power boost.
In that type of vehicle the effort required to make it work would seem to me to outweigh the possible benefits of success.
So it depends on your determination and talent.
As for me I wouldn't try it. R&p makes more sense in a side by side.
Short wheelbase; light, rigid,agile.
Long wheelbase; roomy, smooth riding, good straight line stability.
Depends on what you want.
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Post by skifffz1to3 on Jul 21, 2014 23:38:57 GMT -5
Maybe. There would be new technical problems to solve. If built like mine both points of attachment to the tie rod would be left of center, leaving the passenger side unsupported. A side by side is going be much heavier than mine especially with 2 aboard and steering effort would probably be excessive, once again requiring a power boost. In that type of vehicle the effort required to make it work would seem to me to outweigh the possible benefits of success. Sort came to that conclusion today when I saw the sand rail frame up close.
So it depends on your determination and talent. Determination, no problem...talent, not as much...specially with this gimp hand. First attempt needs to be as quick and easy as possible. As for me I wouldn't try it. R&p makes more sense in a side by side. AgreedShort wheelbase; light, rigid,agile. Long wheelbase; roomy, smooth riding, good straight line stability. Depends on what you want. I want it all, of course. Don't you?  The sand rail is approx 12 too long up front. Cutting and moving steering unit back 12" puts the tire turn in radius questionable as the chassis begins to widen sharply all the way back to the roll cage. Another option is to leave the steering unit in place, cut and move the roll cage forward, rebuild to fit the narrower chassis up front. Besides being a pain to rework, the other drawback here would be a narrower area for pedals and feet. With the 18" wheels and low profile tires the ground clearance is 12+''. The front swing arms can be adjusted some to drop it, but probably still needs to have the steering bar raised a bit in frame to aid the lowering needed. It's heavy. As it sits, maybe 8-900 lbs. By removing everything aft of proposed new seat position, add cross bracing and whatever else is needed to mount the donor bike's steering neck, rear swing arm, transaxel, wheels...might loose 200 lbs. Add back 400 lbs for donor bike...still looking at 1000lbs. Makes me wonder if it would be any quicker to un-build, and rebuild as opposed to building fresh...either way, I can't weld yet, so my dream is still that, a dream. Maybe even a nightmare as I'm loosing sleep thinking about this beast...and all of the sMILES I'm missing day by day. |
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Post by mtntech on Jul 22, 2014 0:33:27 GMT -5
Maybe. There would be new technical problems to solve. If built like mine both points of attachment to the tie rod would be left of center, leaving the passenger side unsupported. A side by side is going be much heavier than mine especially with 2 aboard and steering effort would probably be excessive, once again requiring a power boost. In that type of vehicle the effort required to make it work would seem to me to outweigh the possible benefits of success. So it depends on your determination and talent. As for me I wouldn't try it. R&p makes more sense in a side by side. Short wheelbase; light, rigid,agile. Long wheelbase; roomy, smooth riding, good straight line stability. Depends on what you want. What's the wheelbase and track on yours? |
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Post by Liteway on Jul 22, 2014 8:48:36 GMT -5
88.25" 54.5"
You might want to rethink this whole idea Skifffz. There is no quick and easy way to build a trike, at least not one safe and satisfying.
Have you gone though some of the builds here? Some of these guys have backgrounds in welding and fabrication, and have no disabilities to overcome, but have been struggling for years to get something on the road. Mine took 5. IMO Using a 4 wheel buggy frame will entail lots of compromises, chopping and piecing, and still not be quite right.
A successful side by side would be more akin to a small sports car than a motorcycle.
Why not look for a ruff automatic equipped Miata? Think about it. Better safety, more comfort, climate protection. Fewer registration and insurance problems. Want the wind in your face and something raw? Strip it down.
For the amount of time, effort and money you will put into a trike that may or may not come out like you want, you could customize the Miata endlessly to improve speed and handling, as well as making it your own individual statement. While the mods are taking place, you still have something useful to drive.
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Post by skifffz1to3 on Jul 22, 2014 11:41:25 GMT -5
You might want to rethink this whole idea Skifffz. I know...sadly. There is no quick and easy way to build a trike, at least not one safe and satisfying. I realize that, I guess I thought if enough thought and what if???, something might turn up that was overlooked. No offense intended.
Have you gone though some of the builds here? Yes, countless hours of reading thread after thread. Some of these guys have backgrounds in welding and fabrication, and have no disabilities to overcome, but have been struggling for years to get something on the road. Mine took 5. IMO Using a 4 wheel buggy frame will entail lots of compromises, chopping and piecing, and still not be quite right. After seeing the sand rail first hand, not photos, I came to that same conclusion. I have also looked at a few kit based RTs, none of which are in the USA...but shipping would be expensive. Have not seen any kit built RT offered here, that an average guy can afford. T-Rex, $40-65k. TeraCraft, $40-100k not a kit. rich boy toys.
A successful side by side would be more akin to a small sports car than a motorcycle. Agreed, in part. It is a stretch, but in NC, it's still a motorcycle. My dad, taught me and my two brothers to ride. We rode together for years. Dad now has COPD, O2 24/7 and other health issues...has not ridden for years. I was hoping that by building a side by side RT, I could take him out riding again with my bros and me. He has been very interested in my dream/plan to build. He's even objected to the single seat'ers. (because he could not go along)
Have you ever had something you loved to do literally ripped away from you? Until the crash, I rode every day, rain or shine. I've done 4 cross country rides, all back roads, and many Iron Butt rides, just for the fun of it. I've ridden in every state in the USA except for Alaska and Hawaii. Somewhere between 350-400k miles. Yes, I do have a cage...a nicely equipped Avalanche, but I LOVED to ride. Someone took that from me because what they wanted was more important to them than my life. He sped through the intersection, did not yield on a cross traffic left turn. BAM! (To be fair, and sinical, the green light and the "left turn when green" sign was in English) HE even looked back at me lying in the road motionless for seven seconds before trying to leave the scene. (We have video) His insurance? None. I've been out of work since Feb 1st...Now here is some irony for you, not working=plenty of time to ride...if I could...or plenty of time=build an RT so I can ride, but no extra cash to do it right.
Why not look for a ruff automatic equipped Miata? Think about it. Better safety, more comfort, climate protection. Fewer registration and insurance problems. Want the wind in your face and something raw? Strip it down. Thought about the convertible sporty, maybe, if all other options are gone...my bro has a 1970 MG sitting out back, very raw indeed. Needs a total resto. Chevy V6, 6 speed paddle shift, oh what fun...but $$$$
For the amount of time, effort and money you will put into a trike that may or may not come out like you want, you could customize the Miata endlessly to improve speed and handling, as well as making it your own individual statement. While the mods are taking place, you still have something useful to drive. I understand, and thank you deeply for your input, but a cage by any other name...
Sorry for the rant above, but you know what they say..."if you have to explain it to someone, they wouldn't understand any way". And for me? I'm OK...somehow, some way, God willing, I'll ride again! (just won't be in a buggy that ate the front of a bike...and needs the Heimlich maneuver) Cheers. |
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Post by skifffz1to3 on Jul 22, 2014 23:53:39 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is your style, but you could still have the wind in your face and take a passenger along. I think you could drive with one hand as well. I think a new one is around 30k, but a used one may be quite a bit less. Just a thought...even though it's not an RT. www.motortrike.com/trikethoroughbredstallion.aspxYup, have seen this one up close, too car-ish for me, passed one at Deal's Gap...didn't handle well from what I saw. Price is too high. Thanks though. Also, I'm (was) a mechanic. The need to build as much as I can is overwhelming, hard to explain. You guys should understand that! |
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Post by stretchmobileski on Jul 24, 2014 0:13:14 GMT -5
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Post by skifffz1to3 on Jul 24, 2014 9:12:16 GMT -5
Yup, saw this one some months back at $1600.00. Just reaffirms that the rail frame is too long, and would take a lot of time to re-engineer to make it close to right. Also wrong donor, Gt550 is air cooled and way under powered (no low end grunt) for the weight.
Thanks for sharing.
Cheers |
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The sand rail is approx 12 too long up front. Cutting and moving steering unit back 12" puts the tire turn in radius questionable as the chassis begins to widen sharply all the way back to the roll cage. Another option is to leave the steering unit in place, cut and move the roll cage forward, rebuild to fit the narrower chassis up front. Besides being a pain to rework, the other drawback here would be a narrower area for pedals and feet. With the 18" wheels and low profile tires the ground clearance is 12+''. The front swing arms can be adjusted some to drop it, but probably still needs to have the steering bar raised a bit in frame to aid the lowering needed. It's heavy. As it sits, maybe 8-900 lbs. By removing everything aft of proposed new seat position, add cross bracing and whatever else is needed to mount the donor bike's steering neck, rear swing arm, transaxel, wheels...might loose 200 lbs. Add back 400 lbs for donor bike...still looking at 1000lbs. Makes me wonder if it would be any quicker to un-build, and rebuild as opposed to building fresh...either way, I can't weld yet, so my dream is still that, a dream. Maybe even a nightmare as I'm loosing sleep thinking about this beast...and all of the sMILES I'm missing day by day.